The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

I call Members to order.

1. Questions to the First Minister

The first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the First Minister, and the first question is from Leanne Wood.

Child Poverty

Leanne Wood AC: 1. What is the Welsh Government doing to tackle child poverty? OAQ52801

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, the Institute for Fiscal Studies predicts that poverty in Wales will grow significantly as a result of the UK Government's savage benefit cuts. We are investing to grow our economy, to create jobs and support children, through Flying Start, through Families First, through our childcare offer and the pupil development grant.

Leanne Wood AC: I'd like to return to the matter of free school dinners, First Minister. Last month, you may remember crowing about the generous offer that you were making, but it is a fact that Wales lags behind the north of Ireland when it comes to school meal provision. There, they've put in place a far more generous earnings limit of £14,000 for families, which is almost double the limit proposed by the Welsh Government. Now, this isn't just a concern for me; the Children's Society are actively campaigning against the harsh limit that you plan to introduce. So, can you tell us how the earnings limit is determined in Wales? Have you examined other earnings limits and, if so, what were they? And, as we move closer to 2020—a year in which Labour in Wales had once promised to eliminate child poverty—why is your Government introducing a policy that is going to make it worse?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, there's no evidence at all that it will make it worse. It is a more generous offer than is the case in England. We're providing additional funding of £4 million to local authorities for free school meals via a grant scheme. We're also making an additional £7 million available to local authorities for free school meals in 2019-20. Our most up-to-date analysis suggests that more children will be eligible for free school meals throughout the universal credit roll-out period because of this policy than otherwise would have been the case under the old legacy system. And our transitional protection proposals mean that no child would lose their entitlement to free school meals during the universal credit roll-out period, and beyond, as any existing claimants will continue to be protected until the end of their school phase. And, bear in mind, we have done this despite having no additional funding to manage the impact of the UK Government's welfare reform agenda on free school meals.

Vikki Howells AC: First Minister, back in February I raised, under the business statement, the pioneering work of North Lanarkshire Council in Scotland, which looks to provide free school meals for those eligible 365 days a year. Now, there are proven benefits there to pupils not just in terms of health and well-being, but also in academic attainment too. The leader of the house said the Welsh Government would be following this initiative with keen interest. What lessons have you drawn from it to date?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, these are issues that are still being examined. Of course, whatever we do is tempered by the funds that are available. And we know that the situation is not going to get better, although I do notice that, having come into this job as austerity started, as I'm about to leave it the Prime Minister's announced that it's over. I won't take it personally. But if it is genuinely the case that austerity is over, then that will mean that more resources will be available in order to provide the kind of services that we would like to provide and that we have, by and large, succeeded in providing despite the iron grip of austerity.

Suzy Davies AC: First Minister, the economic action plan states that,
'Good quality jobs and regions that are attractive places in which to live, work and invest, will provide people with a reason to remain or return to work and live in communities where the Welsh language thrives'.
Good education, of course, underpins this ambition, and, while these statements seem aimed at young people who are already in Welsh-speaking communities, being bilingual is an advantage in the workplace and a tool of social mobility as well. So, what success is your Government having in raising the level of Welsh skills in young people who live in communities where Welsh is not a community language?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, one of the lessons we've learned is that, despite the fact that Welsh has been compulsory up to the age of 16 in schools since the early 1990s, we cannot say that we have created confident Welsh speakers in English-medium schools as a result, which is why, of course, the curriculum is being reformed, showing that Welsh is a skill—which it is for most people—rather than an academic qualification, and ensuring that people are better able to measure their fluency in the language. For too long we've had an artificial divide between first and second languages, rather than actually measuring the level of someone's fluency. And that is something that will be very much part of the curriculum, to ensure that Welsh teaching is effective and also that Welsh is seen as a subject that is there to be studied as a skill, which I think will enthuse many more young people.

Road Safety

John Griffiths AC: 2. Will the First Minister set out the Welsh Government's strategy to improve road safety? OAQ52793

Carwyn Jones AC: The road safety framework for Wales sets out the actions we and our partners are currently taking to improve road safety in Wales. We are making good progress to achieve the targets set out in the frameworkand to ensurethat all our roads and streets are safe and accessible for all.

John Griffiths AC: Nonetheless, First Minister, there are still far too many deaths and injuries on our roads, and one important response, which is developing at pace internationally and within the UK, is to increase the amount of 20 mph maximum speed limits in inner urban areas. This makes it easier to avoid accidents, reduces the injury if an accident occurs and allows the streets to be reclaimed from the motor car, which very often is king in our communities at the moment. If we want more children playing, more elderly people feeling at ease in walking around their communities, more walking and cycling with the health and environmental benefits that they bring, then I believe we need to roll out these 20 mph maximum speed limit areas in Wales. One way of doing that would be to have a Wales-wide default 20 mph limit in our inner urban areas, which would allow local authorities then to take forward traffic orders for 30 mph when it was appropriate, in effect reversing the current position, making it easier and less costly for local authorities to have these areas in place, which are so important to community life. First Minister, would you support such a policy to allow communities to reclaim their streets?

Carwyn Jones AC: Could I give the Member for Newport East an indication of where we are with 20 mph speed limits? We are working closely with Public Health Wales to review the evidence available as to the benefits of introducing 20 mph speed limits. That will then inform whether we require a refreshment to the current road safety framework. A comprehensive review of speed limits near schools on or near trunk roads has been carried out. There is a multi-year programme to introduce part-time 20 mph limits in those locations. Funding has been provided for local authorities to implement 20 mph zones and limits through the road safety and Safe Routes in Communities grants, and I can also inform him that Dr Adrian Davies has been commissioned to carry out an evidence review on 20 mph limits, which will then be used to inform any future policy development alongside our work with Public Health Wales. So, a great deal of work is being done. We await now, of course, the results of that work.

Mohammad Asghar (Oscar) AC: First Minister, a few weeks ago, during the business statement, I raised the case of a driver in Newport who defied his optician's advice to stay off the road due to his poor eyesight. He was subsequently the cause of a fatal road accident on the M4. At the moment, it is the responsibility of the driver to advise the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency that they are no longer able to drive. Can I ask the First Minister to look into this issue, with a view to making it mandatory for opticians in Wales to advise the DVLA when a driver's eyesight has deteriorated to such an extent that they are a danger to themselves and other motorists on the road in Wales, please?

Carwyn Jones AC: Firstly, the issue isn't devolved. Secondly, I suspect there are some quite serious data protection issues that would need to be overcome if optometrists were told they had to report somebody if their eyesight was not sufficient to enable them to drive. It is the responsibility of an individual to make sure that they are fit to drive. It's the same with their eyesight. It's the same, of course, if somebody has an illness that affects their driving—they are obliged to inform the DVLA. Their insurance might be voided as a result and, of course, they will face charges if they cause an accident in certain circumstances. So, while I understand the need to ensure that people have sufficient eyesight to be able to drive, I think it is a matter of personal responsibility, and not a matter anyway, of course, that's devolved to this Assembly.

Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

Questions now from the party leaders. The Plaid Cymru leader, Adam Price.

Adam Price AC: Thank you, Llywydd. First of all, on behalf of Plaid Cymru, I’d like to extend my sincerest sympathies to the families and friends of those who have lost their lives as a result of the flooding over the weekend, including a constituent of mine, Corey Sharpling from Newcastle Emlyn, and I would welcome a personal commitment from the First Minister that the Government will look in earnest at any lessons that can be learned as a result of these tragic events.

Adam Price AC: First Minister, can you explain why, when the Labour group voted here a week ago against Plaid Cymru's motion calling for a people's vote on Brexit, two of your Ministers have been pressing the case for such a vote in recent days? Your health Secretary says the 'leave' campaign could have committed fraud. Your skills Minister says Brexit would be a tragedy and seriously damage Wales. Both say they would vote 'remain' in a referendum that should be held on the Brexit deal. Now, I agree with them.The question is: do you, or do you agree with your finance Secretary who declared that a people's vote isn't a policy but a slogan?

Carwyn Jones AC: May I start by echoing his comments on the tragic news that we heard over the weekend and also extend our deepest condolences on these benches to the family of Corey Sharpling? It happened in his constituency, of course, and it is something that is dreadful for the family and the whole community too. I join with him in those comments.

Carwyn Jones AC: First of all, our policy is very clear with regard to a second referendum. We have said that a second referendum could only come about in certain circumstances. The first is whether or not there is an agreement at the Westminster Parliament and here and the Scottish Parliament. If there is no such agreement, to my mind there should then be a general election. If the results of that general election are inconclusive, how then do you resolve the issue, other than of course by having another referendum?

Adam Price AC: I think the LabourParty could be accused of creative ambiguity in relation to its Brexit policy, but I don't think it could be accused of clarity. No more is that ambiguity on show than in the Labour leadership hustings. Reports from the first hustings held last week in the battle to replace you certainly made for interesting reading. Your skills Minister complained about the cuts to adult education. The finance Secretary described your attempts at reorganising local government as having been, as he put it, flawed and a distraction. And your health Secretary admitted that healthcare could have been better reorganised over the nine years that you've been at the helm. It's difficult to disagree with him when he says more of the same is not enough, but, when Vaughan Gething says that what Wales needs is a leader not a manager, is it the finance Minister or you that he has in mind?

Carwyn Jones AC: Having been here for more than nine years, the people of Wales have shown their confidence in me and my party, and I leave in the knowledge of that confidence. I have no difficulty with candidates bringing ideas forward. That's what they're meant to do. As long as, of course, they don't conflict with establishedGovernment policy, then it's absolutely right in a leadership contest that candidates should be free to come forward with ideas of their own. They're not going to say, 'Let'sdo things exactly as they have been'. They are of course in a position where they need to bring forward fresh ideas, and that's something that I very much welcome. I do welcome the fact that he is following the hustings and the leadership contest within my party with very great interest. I'm sure he will be able to ask questions of my successor when my successor takes over as First Minister.

Adam Price AC: Perhaps the biggest criticism made of your Government is that you don't like criticism. It's not just me saying that, but your Cabinet Secretary for local government, Alun Davies—I knew your time would come, Alun—who said this in a lecture to Public Affairs Cymru a few weeks ago:
'All too often I have seen people pull punches and bite lips whilst giving evidence to committees because criticism of Welsh Government or ministers is too difficult for organisations whose funding depends upon the largesse of that same government and those ministers.'
This cultureof silence, the Welsh omertà, seems also to extend to the senior civil service. We saw only yesterday the Permanent Secretary refusing to answer questions about public accounts at the Public Accounts Committee. Was this becauseshe was afraid of embarrassing you and your Ministers?

Carwyn Jones AC: Far from it. I don't know what he's referring to there. I know there was an issue with the accounts not being available in Welsh, which is unfortunate and will need to be rectified and I think has been rectified by now. We are very confident in what we have done in order to provide the support needed to bring jobs into Wales, and today we celebrate the fact that unemployment is 3.3 per cent. It is below the UK average. We celebrate the fact that we have record employment, higher than Scotland—record employment—and economicinactivity is down. These are figures we would have dreamt of not so long ago, and that shows how important it is to have a Welsh Labour-led Government that provides the support to business and ensures that unemployment comes down below the UK average. That's the devolution dividend.

The leader of the opposition, Paul Davies.

Paul Davies AC: Diolch, Llywydd. Can I also associate myself with the remarks made by the leader of Plaid Cymruand send my sympathies and my party's condolences to Corey Sharpling'sfamily?
First Minister, in light of this weekend's devastating floods, do you consider your decision to cut capital spending on flood defences by almost 50 per cent in 2016-17 wise?

Carwyn Jones AC: We have invested a great deal of money—£350 million—over this Government term to reduce the risk of flooding and coastal erosion. That's a substantial investment, far in excess of what's been done by his party in England,I have to say, where flood defence money has been cut very, very sharply indeed.
Now, what we will do, of course, is wait for NRW to conduct an analysis of whether there is more that can be done, or a reprioritising of some schemes, in the light of the evidence that we have seen from the flooding over the course of the past weekend. That is the sensible thing to do, that is the responsible thing to do, but I can say that there is already evidence that the schemes that have been put in place have helped to mitigate and prevent flooding across Wales where flooding would have occurred in the past.

Paul Davies AC: Well, First Minister, it's about time that you take responsibility for what you are actually responsible for here in Wales, instead of talking about England. Let me give you some of the figures. [Interruption.] Let me give you—[Interruption.] Let me give you some of the figures. Between 2015-16 and 2016-17, capital spending on flood defenceswas cut from £18 million to £9.5 million, and it's therefore true to say that spending on flood-risk management and flood defencesis not your Government's priority. Once again, your Government has failed to understand and address the needs of communities across Wales. Will you now apologise to those homes and businesses for the devastation and havoc that have been caused because of the cuts we've seen to NRW's budget over the years?

Carwyn Jones AC: Does he know how many flooding events there have been in England over the years? There are some things that are very difficult to prevent. We are not in a position where we can prevent every single flood, despite the weather, and what we saw over the weekend was an extreme weather event. Despite that, we will work with NRWto understand what more may need to be done in order to mitigate the impacts of flooding in the future.
But he simply cannot say, 'Well, you know, this is Wales—forget about what's happening in Whitehall.' The money, in the main—all of it, almost—comes from his Government in London, and yet he sits there and says, 'Well, it's all your fault that spending has been cut', when, in fact, as the finance Secretary has already said, if spending had kept pace—if public spending had kept pace and our block grant had kept pace—with growth in the economy since 2010, we would have £4 billion more. Why doesn't he make the case for Wales? We know Northern Ireland had £1 billion-worth of bung money. Why doesn't he make the case for Wales?
Yes, of course, we take responsibility in devolved areas, but perhaps he might want to take some responsibility and say to his colleagues in London, 'Enough is enough—let's end austerity; give Wales the money that it deserves.'

Paul Davies AC: The reason we've had to cut spending, as a UK Government, over the last few years is because of the shambles—the shambles—that you left, as a party, in 2010. And we're still paying—[Interruption.] We're still paying the price for that. Now, First Minister—[Interruption.] First Minister, clearly—[Interruption.] Clearly—

Okay. Okay, allow the leader of the opposition to be heard.

Paul Davies AC: Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, clearly, flooding is not a priority for your Government, because the remit letter from the environment Minister, which sets the priorities for Natural Resources Wales each year, does not prioritise flooding, flood-risk management or water management at all. This is the latest in a long line of failures at Natural Resources Wales, and a weakness of your Government to properly manage this organisation.First Minister, how will you and your Minister now get a grip of this issue and ensure that flooding and flood-risk management will be a priority for you and your Government in the future?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, from a representative of the party that created the omnishambles—I don't think we can take any lessons from them. As I said to him earlier on, we will have provided over £350 million of investment across Wales to local authorities and NRW to reduce the risk of flooding and coastal erosion.
But he cannot escape the fact that we have seen year after year after year of cuts to our budget here in Wales, even as the Democratic Unionist Party'svotes were bought by his party—£1 billion; silence from the Conservative benches. Did they stand up for Wales? Of course they didn't. Did they complain to their colleagues in London? Of course they didn't.Far easier to try and pin the blame on us, when our budget is being cut year after year after year, than actually try and influence their colleagues in London, over whom they say they have a great deal of influence, and provide Wales with the fair play that Wales deserves—that extra £4 billion—and, of course, ensuring that Northern Ireland doesn't get £1 billion, with nothing for Scotland and Wales in the future. That's responsibility—perhaps he'd like to apologise to the people of Wales for his failure in that regard.

Leader of the UKIP group, Gareth Bennett.

Gareth Bennett AC: Diolch, Llywydd. I add my condolences to the families of people who were affected by the tragic events at the weekend. Now, First Minister, you will be well aware of the environmental effects of wood burning. Wood burning is seen by some environmentalists as a source of air pollution. Burning wood from trees also releases concentrated toxins back into the air, increasing our carbon footprint. So, I would like to ask you, First Minister, what is the Welsh Government's policy regarding the burning of wood?

Carwyn Jones AC: We are supportive of biomass but, of course, we want to make sure that the energy mix is as broad as possible, whilst taking into account our commitments in terms of reducing our carbon footprint. That's why, of course, we've seen biomass plants around Wales. Of course, biomass is renewable in the sense that you can replant trees in a way, for example, that isn't possible with coal.

Gareth Bennett AC: Thank you for that answer. There are some contentious arguments going on about wood burning and biomass, as to whether that really is renewable, so I will ask you on that, if I may. Now, a few weeks ago at First Minister's questions, you were telling us how EU regulations and guidance were helping Wales and the UK to protect the environment. And yet I now see that the EU has recently promoted the burning of wood as an environmentally-friendly and renewable fuel, as you just referred to the practice yourself. However, in adopting this position, the EU has drawn quite pointed criticism from many respected environmental scientists. For example, Eric Lambin of Stanford University said:
'Treating wood as a carbon-neutral fuel is a simple policy decision with complex cascading effects on forest use, energy systems, wood trade and biodiversity worldwide.'
End of quote. The worry is that by treating wood burning as a virtuous renewable fuel, we can end up desecrating forests, increasing the harvesting of global woodland, and, ultimately, producing increased emissions of greenhouse gas. Bearing all that in mind, First Minister, is your Government still confident that the EU is delivering the environmental protections that you have been telling us about?

Carwyn Jones AC: Yes, because—. Well, let me see if I can explain it. Wood comes from trees, and trees grow. [Laughter.] And trees—. You can plant trees, they will grow, and they are replaceable in the way that coal, for example, as a fossil fuel, isn't. And I come back to the point I made earlier on—well, a few weeks ago in this Chamber: it's because of the EU that the UK cleaned up its act. The UK was one of the worst polluters in Europe. There was a river—I believe it was the River Irwell in Salford—that would catch alight if a lit match was thrown into it. Air quality was bad. We contributed hugely to acid rain. Our beaches were filthy. All those things have changed because European regulations have cleaned up Britain, and the last thing I'd want to see is us going back to those dark days in the 1980s where, for example, the River Ogmore in Bridgend used to run different colours according to what had been put into it upriver. I saw it run green, red, black—take your pick, really. The level of pollution was horrendous. Those days can never return.

Gareth Bennett AC: Yes, you're using your well-worn anecdote about the River Irwell in Salford again. Well, we don't have to go as far away as the River Irwell—you also cite the River Ogmore. We had two rivers in Cardiff that would also change colour, so I'm not disagreeing with you on that—the Taff would turn black with coal dust; theEly would change into various bright colours as it passed Ely papermill, depending on which colour dye had just been flushed into the river. But, going back to the River Irwell, I'd quote from a recent Cardiff University paper that referenced the recent addition of the journal Nature Geoscience. I quote, 'But a recent analysis of the Irwell system in the north-west of England found the highest concentration of plastic recorded in any river in the world.' End quote. So, even with all of these wonderful EU regulations, the river is still apparently suffering from some fairly major pollution.
Now, I think there are a couple of points to be made here. One is that you talk about my party, UKIP, wanting the UK to leave the EU as though we don't want any environmental regulations. And you speak as if, the moment the UK does leave the EU, all of the environmental regulations will disappear overnight. Clearly, this is nonsense and you're merely scaremongering. There is a continuity Bill that will ensure that all of the environmental regulations—every single one of them— will be preserved in UK law until such time as the UK Parliament has had time to assess that regulation and determine whether or not to keep it, to amend it, or to dispose of it. That process will take some time, obviously, because the legislators will have thousands of EU regulations to examine.
But another point I would like to make is this—[Interruption.]

You do need to get to a question.

Gareth Bennett AC: I will. You seem to have a blind faith in EU directives and regulations, and yet—[Interruption.]

And now I can't hear whether he is getting to a question.

Gareth Bennett AC: I am, Llywydd.

Yes. Thank you, Gareth.

Gareth Bennett AC: And yet the EU supports wood burning, and we have people in Wales facing potential health risks as a result of that wood burning. There were at least three fires in south Wales at a wood recycling plant last year alone. Natural Resources Wales, which you oversee, gave a licence to a biomassincinerator neighbouring residential properties near Barry Dock. There's black, acrid smoke—[Interruption.]

Okay. I do need a question now.

Gareth Bennett AC: How do you respond to the acrid, black smoke being suffered by residents near that wood-burning incinerator?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, his party, as far as I'm aware, is in favourof more coal, which means more opencast, actually, because that's the only way to really get at coal in Wales now. It would be very difficult to sink any deep mines, even if we wanted to, to access that coal, and hugely expensive because of the geological faults, particularly in south Wales. I'm not sure whether he's saying that somehow the EU is polluting Britain with biomass. And he cites the River Irwell—there's work to be done there, clearly, with plastic. But the point is this: I don't make the point that somehow all environmental regulations will fall away as soon as we leave the EU; I make the point that it was the EUthat forced Britain to clean up its act. The UK had an awful record when it came to pollution. It was forced to clean up beaches, clean up rivers, clean up the sea, because of European regulation. I would not want to see a situation in the future where we went backwards because of some crazed free-market ideology that said that environmental regulation is something that should be light touch. Absolutelynot; we pride ourselves on our environment in Wales, we pride ourselves on the fact that it's been cleaned up so much over the past 30 years, and it will not go backwards.

Local Authorities' Spending

Angela Burns AC: 3. Will the First Minister outline how the Welsh Government monitors the effectiveness of spending by local authorities? OAQ52796

Carwyn Jones AC: The effectiveness of its spending is, in the first instance, a matter for each authority and its elected members, including through scrutiny.

Angela Burns AC: 'An easy and lazy option when it comes to local government is to blame austerity and the Tories.' Gosh, First Minister, it sounds a bit like you and your Government. Let me read it again: 'an easy and lazy option when it comes to local government is to blame austerity and the Tories. It too often ignores other factors, such as poor decision making, when it comes to both budgets and service delivery.'
First Minister, these are the words of the former Labourleader of your local council, Jeff Jones. [Interruption.] The latest figures available for useable reserves over the last financial year show that four Welsh councils hold over £100 million each in reserves, and three of these are Labour-led. First Minister, is it poor decision making to cut so many services when sitting on millions and millions of pounds?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, there's very little upon which I'd agree with Jeff Jones, and that has not changed. The point is this: is she saying that all local authorities, regardless of which party runs them, are in some way operating badly? Because that's what she's suggesting, that somehow it's all poor decision making in all parts of Wales and that local government, in effect, is crying wolf, that, somehow, local government has lots of money and, if only for the fact that they delivered services in a different way, they would be able to access far more money. Well, no. We know how difficult it is on local authorities. We know that it is tight. We look forward to the ending of austerity and look forward to the Chancellor providing us with more resources before Christmas, which we can then help local government with. I just don't accept that the problem in local government in Wales is the fact that every local council is taking bad decisions. That clearly can't be right and we want to make sure that, if the Prime Minister is true to her word and the brakes are coming off austerity, we see further resources coming to Wales and further resources that we can then provide for our local authorities.

Siân Gwenllian AC: Gwynedd Council is among the councils that will suffer most as a result of cuts following the local government settlement: a cut of up to £11 million, and that’s on top of years of dreadful cuts. On the other hand, the north Wales health board is operating on an annual financial deficit of around £26 million last year, despite the fact that the health board is in special measures and under your direct management as a Government. Is it fair to punish Gwynedd Council, an authority that has been praised for being robust in its financial arrangements, while rewarding a health board that is performing consistently poorly and is clearly failing at financial planning and to operate effectively for the benefit of the people of north Wales?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, one of the arguments that some councils put forward is that money should be transferred from health to local government because of the fact that they say more and more money is going into health. The balance is very difficult, because health does attract more and more of a demand each year. But, as I said earlier,we wish to see the Chancellorgiving Wales more resources and, by doing that, we hope that there'llbe more funding available for local government, because I know that they're under pressure, and I'm not saying anything different, but, of course, the root of this lies in the fact that the money that we get from London has been squeezed. And so we could help local authorities in the same way as we did last year.

Caroline Jones AC: First Minister, as a result of this year's local government settlement, local authorities across my region are warning that cuts to essential services are inevitable. Bridgend County Borough Council areproposing to close public toilets in Porthcawl,Swansea are closing care homes, and Neath Port Talbot are at breaking point because of the cuts. First Minister, how is your Government ensuring that local authorities eliminate wasteful spending before cutting essential services?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, I think local authorities take very seriously their obligations, and I know that, through contact with my own local authority, there are some very, very painful decisions that they're having to consider at the moment, which is not what people go into politics for, I understand that, which is why I have said to them and to others that any extra resources that come from the Chancellor as a result of the autumn statement—that local government will be first in the queue, given, of course, the pressures that we know will be placed on local government both this year and in the future.

Public Transport

Julie Morgan AC: 4. What plans does the Welsh Government have to provide better public transport around Wales? OAQ52799

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, delivering our ambitious vision for public transport is at an exciting stage, as we proceed to reshape rail services via the new Wales and borders franchise, the south Wales metro, of course, the north Wales metro as well, and our plans for active travel, local bus services and investments in the strategic road network.

Julie Morgan AC: I thank the First Minister for that response. Yesterday, it was reported that the number of local busjourneys made in Britain had reached a 12-year low, and during the same period Wales bus passenger journeys have dropped by 5 million a year.The bus is such a hugely important form of transport for so many people, so what more can the Welsh Government do to encourage people to take the bus and improve the environment and improve things generally?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, I believe this will take legislation, because we know—and many of us will have had constituents come to us complaining about a bus service being cut, but of course there's nothing we can do about it because it's a privately run service, it's not subsidised, there is no leverage.So, in the next few years, the Government will be looking at introducing legislation to ensure greater consistency of supply in services, to ensure we don't see a situation where services suddenly stop because an operator has gone bankrupt or decided not to run the service any more. And I think creating that certainty for passengers will create better numbers for the buses, because people won't be thinking, 'Well, I might take the bus, but will it turn up?Will the service still be there next year?'It's absolutely crucial, because in most parts of Wales we have what's, in effect, a private monopoly. There is no real competition along most routes. This is not what bus privatisation, even if you agreed with it in the 1980s, was meant to do, so we must now look at a new model that looks upon bus services as just that, services rather than something delivered entirely through competition that doesn't really exist.

Nick Ramsay AC: First Minister, I'd like to focus on disabled access to public transport, and specifically the ongoing lack of access at Abergavenny station. You mentioned the rail network and the importance of that and the new franchise. We didn't get very far under the old Arriva south Wales border franchise in dealing with problems of the lack of disabled access, much to the frustration of local people in my constituency, including prominent disabled access campaigner Dan Biddle. I wonder if you can give us an assurance that, under the new Transport for Wales structureand under the new franchise, as we move forward,the necessary improvements will now be made so that rail passengers across Wales will be able to benefit from unfettered access, whether or not they're able-bodied or disabled.

Carwyn Jones AC: Yes, £15 million has been allocated for that purpose. Abergavenny station is one of the stations that will be upgraded to ensure—well, 'upgraded' is the wrong word, really. It will ensure that what should be normal,i.e. disabled access, will be there. There are other stations as well. I was at Cathays station yesterday.It's not possible for people to cross to the other side of the tracks in Cathays—there's a bridge, but there's no other way of doing it; that will need to be resolved as well. But I can assure him that Abergavenny,as an important station, will see that work done.

Bethan Sayed AC: The Welsh transport appraisal guidance report that proposesthe closure of junction 41 westbound states there is a goal to tryto ease congestion in that particular area, and they're trying to say that people need to get out of their cars, something that I would agree with. But in that particular area,we've seen downgrading of bus times through the Afanvalley, and a new Transport for Wales franchise does not benefit the south-west of Wales as we would like it to. We are seeing huge proposals in finances to be put into a stretch of the M4 that we disagree with. So, how are you going to realise the intentions of that report whencommunity transport is far from perfect here in Wales, and that's the record of your Government?

Carwyn Jones AC: First of all, what she's talking about is a capital project, the M4, and what will be revenue funding with regard to bus services; they're two different pots to begin with. Butit's not right to say that south-west Wales will not benefit, because the metro is not just about trains, it's not just about light rail, it's also about bus services. Now, of course, bus services have recently been devolved to this institution; there's an opportunity now for us to make sure that bus services are properly integrated into the train services. But, of necessity, because we have control of the train services now, that will be taken forward over the next five years and beyond, and then, of course, subject to the legislation, bus services, including those in the Afanvalley, will be brought into a proper metro network.

The Taxation of Second Homes

Siân Gwenllian AC: 5. Will the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government's policy on the taxation of second homes? OAQ52794

Carwyn Jones AC: We are developing our tax policies to meet the specific needs of Wales, in line with the principles set out in our tax policy framework. This includes our approach to the taxation of second homes.

Siân Gwenllian AC: I'm sure you'd agree that the fact that 5 million people in Britain now own two or more homes, whilst almost 700,000 people are reliant on food packs from the Trussell Trustcharity is one of the clearest signals that our society is increasingly inequitable and unfair.
There are 5,000second homes in Gwynedd, whilst almost 2,000 are on the waiting list for social housing in the county. I am pleased to see that you, at last, following pressure fromPlaid Cymru, are now starting to tackle the anomaly that means that some second home owners don't pay council tax or business rates, which is a huge loss to the public purse. But far more needs to be done to help families who are priced out of the market by the existence of an increasing number of second homes in their communities. One simple thing that could be done in Wales is to make a minor change to the planning system and make it a requirement for any property to have planning permission before it can become a second home, which would then allow councils to get better control of the situation. Do you agree that this change is required as a matter of urgency?

Carwyn Jones AC: We've looked at this, and it isn't as easy as that because what happens then, for example, in Cardiff. where many flats are erected and some are second homes? Does that mean that you have to have, for example, planning permission for each one of those, and, in particular, with second homes, what constitutes a second home? If a person lives in it for half the time, but in another for half the time, which is the second home? If it is in England, you could say, 'Well, this is my main home, and my second home is in England.' I understand the point that the Member makes, but it's not quite that simple.
What is the solution? We have ensured that councils can charge more council tax on second homes, and we've ensured that people who purchase second homes have to pay the land purchase tax; that is also true. But, also, we must have a planning system that is sensitiveto the linguistic background of the area, particularly, but, ultimately, we need more housing to ensure that local people don't have to compete withincomers and also that there can be a mix of housing so that people can ensure that they have a choice in the area. So, we need more housing and more affordable housing in order to ensure that people can live within their communities. I understand that it's very difficult to do so in some parts of Wales.

David Melding AC: First Minister, I do agree that housing is an asset like no other, really, and has to be treated with its social dimension very much in mind. For this reason, I do agree that Government can look at policies like a premium on the council tax. Where you do that, however, shouldn't it also be, at the very least, the guidance that any extra revenue so generated is then reinvested in affordable and social housing?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, I would hope that local councils do that anyway. We know that there are many local authorities in Wales who are building councilhouses. We know that in rural Wales particularly—I think Powys is the example I always use, it has probably sold half of its social housing stock from the end of the 1970s onwards. So many houses were soldand they never found their way back into the hands of people who could afford to buy them because the prices had gone up so far. So, yes, it is hugely important that there is more affordable housing—some will be rented, some not. I was with a building company last week, for example, who said to me that 70 per cent of the houses they sell are sold through Help to Buy, without which, they probably would find it difficult to sustain their current level of activity.
But it is hugely important that we're able to provide more houses across Wales, but particularly in rural Wales, where there is not as much choice in terms of house size and in terms of price. How will we do that? Well, of course, we are on target to deliver 20,000 affordable homes by the end of this Assemblyterm, which will make a significant contribution.

Welsh Government Procurement

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: 6. Will the First Minister make a statement on Welsh Government procurement? OAQ52798

Carwyn Jones AC: We're committed to maximising the social, economic and environmental value of our procurement.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: Thank you. I have recently acquired a list of transactions on Welsh Government procurement cards for the 2017-18 financial year. I was, however, very shocked to see that nearly £1.6 million was spent on these credit cards over the 12 months, with many of the transactions remaining worryinglyvague. One example is the £13,255 spent through PayPal—no information about what was bought and from what companies. Another is £460 spent at yachtshop.co.uk, or the £8,300 spent in one transaction on a British Airways flight. There are also countless instances of these cards paying for Amazon Prime or iTunes subscriptions with no details. What steps are you taking, as First Minister, to improve transparency and financial probity whilst monitoring the spend of hard-earned taxpayers' money on these Welsh Government procurement credit cards?

Carwyn Jones AC: We regularly publish our spend over £25,000 to improve the transparency of how public funds are used. I will call on the examples that the Member has used and look to provide her with a detailed answer to her questions.

Jenny Rathbone AC: Obviously, we have the Wales Audit Office to monitor the detail of these things. I just wanted to ask you about the wider picture in terms of the procurement power that we have. We have a public sector that spends over £4 billion each year on procurement, and I'm very interested in how we might be able to procure more of our spend in Wales so that we're generating local jobs rather than in multinationals that then export the profits.
I'm particularly interested in work that's been done by the National Procurement Service around procuring food. I'm concerned to see from the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee's report last May that there is no public source of accurate and up-to-date figures on public sector procurement of Welsh food, so I'd be keen to learn how we can improve the procurement of local food in Wales, because, obviously, that would be good for our businesses and also good for our health.

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, what I can say is that we, of course, encourage Welsh public bodies to increase the visibility of contracts via Sell2Wales. Of the 22,000 contracts awarded so far through Sell2Wales, approximately two thirds have been to Welsh suppliers and 75 per cent of these have been to Welsh small and medium-sized enterprises. I know the Member asked about the National Procurement Service, I can say that the proportion of public procurement expenditure won by Welsh-based firms now stands at 50 per cent. From 1 April 2017 to 30 June of this year, the spend through NPSagreements was £7,000,700, and of that, 57 per cent was Welsh-based suppliers. When our community benefits policy is applied, the figures are even higher. For example, 82 per cent of the money has been retained in Wales when that is applied. She asked, of course, how we increase this. We want to do that through the importance of regional and local priorities within local authorities, and we are exploring the adoption of different approaches where regional collaborative procurement is undertaken, which strengthens the economy and communities within those regions.

A Living Wage Nation

Jane Hutt AC: 7. Will the First Minister make a statement on progress towards Wales becoming a real living wage nation? OAQ52774

Carwyn Jones AC: Welsh Government is a living wage employer, and I'm proud that this Government has taken action to support and encourage take-up of the real living wage by employers in both the public and private sectors.

Jane Hutt AC: Of course, First Minister, the real living wage makes a real difference to people's lives, benefiting wage earners, their households, communities and local economies. And I know, ahead of Living Wage Week, you've always actively supported events during early November. What further action can be taken to promote the real living wage across, particularly, the public sector, the health service and local government, but also in further and higher education?

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, we've got a strong push on this across the public sector: in Government, of course; our sponsored bodies; the NHS; national parks; HEIs; some local authorities, for example, they all pay the real living wage to their own staff. Of course, we need to make sure that applies across local authorities. It needs to be seen as something that is normal, not exceptional, within the public sector, and we want now to move on to use the buying power that we have in the public sector to ensure the wider adoption of the real living wage as part of fair work across the economy.

And finally, question 8. Bethan Sayed.

The Housing Revenue Account Subsidy Scheme

Bethan Sayed AC: 8. What assessment has the First Minister made of the reform of the housing revenue account subsidy scheme? OAQ52800

Carwyn Jones AC: Well, I am pleased that, following the exit from the housing revenue account subsidy system, all affected authorities have a council house building strategy in place. They're all at different stages and we are working with them to increase the pace and scale of their plans.

Bethan Sayed AC: As you've mentioned, as part of the exit from this scheme in 2015, a borrowing cap of £1.85 billion was placed on councils that retained housing stock. Given that Theresa May has announced that English councils will no longer have a cap on their ability to borrow to build new homes, will the Welsh Government look into renegotiating the current deal with the Treasury? After all, it makes more sense to borrow to build homes when there is no right to buy, as is the case in Wales, than in England, where homes can be built and then sold for less than the market value. In Wales, that investment will continue to be returned over the long term.

Carwyn Jones AC: That's correct. At the moment the borrowing cap is £1,927 million. I saw the Prime Minister's announcement. Officials have been in touch with representatives in the UK Government to see how that will work, and I think it's fair to say that no-one seems to know at the moment. The announcement was made. There doesn't seem to be any detail. But I can assure the Member that what applies in England in terms of flexibility, we would expect to apply in Wales.

Thank you, First Minister.

2. Business Statement and Announcement

The next item, therefore, is the business statement and announcement, and I call on the leader of the house to make the statement. Julie James.

Julie James AC: Diolch, Llywydd. There are several changes to this week's business. Later today, the Minister for environment will make a statement on the flood impact of storm Callum; I will make a statement on'Action on Disability: The Right to Independent Living'; and the Minister for Children, Older People and Social Care will make a statement on National Adoption Week. These replace statements on a broadband update—which I will deliver next week—and the findings of the independent accelerated programme for amber review, which has been postponed until 6 November. Additionally, the statement on the update on year 2 of the innovative housing programme has been reduced to 30 minutes. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out in the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the meeting paper available to Members electronically.

Darren Millar AC: Leader of the house, can I call for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Education on the process by which she determines school closure proposals that have been referred to her by various organisations that are able to do that? She will be aware that there is an outstanding school closure proposal that has been on the Cabinet Secretary's desk—or, certainly, a desk in the Welsh Government—for the past 31 months. It's now five years that there has been uncertainty around this particular school closure proposal for Ysgol Llanbedrin my own constituency in Denbighshire. The first application was forwarded to Ministers and the application was rejected. A second application was then made by Denbighshireto close the school, and it was referred by the Church in Wales back in 2015, and the uncertainty is hanging around this school. Yet in spite of that, the numbers at the school are buoyant, it's entered into a federation arrangement with another local school, and appears to be going from strength to strength and having a great deal of success. But I'm sure that you would agree with me that such uncertainty for such a long time is completely unacceptable, and that this now needs to be determined as a matter of urgency. So, I would appreciate a statement just clarifying the process, and the appropriate timescales, from the Cabinet Secretary for Education.
Can I also call for a statement on access to modern medicines? I met this morning with the Cystic Fibrosis Trust regarding access to some of the more modern medicines, includingOrkambi, which has been proven to be significantly effective in alleviating the symptoms and slowing down the progress of cystic fibrosis in as many as 47 per cent of cases. This could benefitaround 200 people who are suffering from cystic fibrosis here in Wales, and yet at the moment this drug isn't available, in spite of it being available in Austria, Denmark, Germany, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Italy, Ireland, Greece, the United States and Sweden. Clearly this is a modern drug, it's expensive, and I know that we have to safeguard the public purse, but it is making a difference for those people who have access to it, and I think it would be helpful if we could have an update from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Services on this particular situation, and in particular to give us some light on whether there have been any discussions with Vertex, the manufacturer of this particular drug, the Welsh Government and NHS Wales in terms of making some sort of access available for patients. So, I'd be grateful if I could have those two statements, please.

Julie James AC: The second one is already the subject of a question for one of your Conservative colleagues at questions tomorrow, so I'm sure there'll be an opportunity to discuss it with the Cabinet Secretary there. On the school closure issue that you mentioned, the Cabinet Secretary is indicating that she's happy to write to you about it.

Dai Lloyd AC: Leader of the house, back in May I raised under the business statement the fact that I had received representations from trainee doctors in Wales in the field of histopathology who, for some time now, have faced a pay gap of some £40,000 over the course of their training when compared to their English counterparts. The Welsh Government is aware of the pay gap due to correspondence between myself and the Cabinet Secretary for health on this matter. Indeed, I first raised the matter in a written question back in November 2016, yet two years on the gap persists.
As I've stated previously, pay, among other factors, is clearly important to trainee doctors when deciding on where to train and study. Doctors who decide to train in Wales deserve parity with their counterparts across the border. Trainees have told me that they feel that, by deciding to work in Wales, they are being financially punished for the decision. The situation is not fair, it does nothing for morale and in the long run it undermines the Welsh Government's own attempts to attract doctors to train and work in NHS Wales.
In answering our written question from myself in July of this year, the Cabinet Secretary referred to discussions with BMA Cymru and the Wales Deanery, and that he expected a report on this issue to be ready in September. Could I therefore ask the Cabinet Secretary to bring forward a statement, be it oral or written, setting out clearly the Welsh Government's position on closing this pay gap in histopathology training between Wales and England with a view to bringing this inequity to an end as soon as possible?

Julie James AC: The Cabinet Secretary's indicating to me that he's very happy to bring forward a statement on that matter.

Julie Morgan AC: Thank you. I wanted to raise the continuing issue of the Windrush scandal. As the leader of the house is probably aware, since the Windrush scandal became public earlier this year, two taskforces have been launched by the Home Office to engage with people affected by the scandal and to help them resolve their status. However, I understand that, despite visiting 52 places in the UK, the taskforce is now finally coming to Wales and, I understand, only after Hilary Brown, the lawyer who has fought many of these immigration cases, protested, and it will only come to two places, Cardiff and Newport. A second compensation taskforce is only coming for one day, so I think there is a great deal of anger, really, that Welsh victims of Windrush are being discarded and treated as a second afterthought. Of course, it does affect us here in the Assembly because it links to some of the services that we provide in this Assembly.
So, I don't know whether the leader of the house has been able to raise this with Home Office officials, or whether she will raise it with Home Office officials. Perhaps we could have a statement from the Government about what is happening with the victims of Windrush here in Wales.

Julie James AC: Yes, as it happens, I had the opportunity to meet with the UK Government Minister for Immigration, Caroline Nokes, only yesterday, and this was on the agenda for discussion. She confirmed that the taskforce is coming to Wales, and we had some discussion about what the situation was here in Wales. Only 62 people from Wales, she has confirmed back to me, have accessed the helpline, and whilst we don't know the true scale of the affected community, I personally think, from conversations in the community—and I know Julie Morgan has had similar conversations—that that's only a small fraction of those who are actually affected.
I had quite a robust discussion with the Minister and with my counterpart from Scotland about the situation, and about what information people are expected to produce and how reasonable that is, and what they were testing that against in terms of transparency and reasonableness and all those sorts of things. She assured me that the taskforce was very interested in supporting individuals throughout the whole process, and we had an exchange of views around the fact that the community needed to be thoroughly reassured that the processwas there, both to protect their interests and to compensate them for any difficulties that they might have encountered. So, the Minister did assure me of those things, and I look forward to seeing how the taskforce progresses.

Mohammad Asghar (Oscar) AC: Leader of the house, may I ask for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for health on the availability of microprocessorkneeson the NHS in Wales?Microprocessor knees, or MPKs, are designed for people who have an amputation above the knee and thus lack the knee jointand lower leg. I was contacted recently by a constituent who had his right leg amputated up to the hip after the lorry he was driving overturned in high winds on the Severn bridge. MPKshave been available on the NHSin England since 2016 and are also provided to eligible amputees in Northern Ireland and Scotland. However, my constituent has been told by his amputation clinic that they are not available in Wales. Leader of the house, can I ask the Cabinet Secretary for his statement on why the life-changing benefits of MPKsare not available to amputees in Wales, please?

Julie James AC: I understand that you are already in correspondence with the health Secretary on this matter, and that he's already answered your query.

Steffan Lewis AC: Ithas been announced that the public front desk at Caerphilly police station will once again close, meaning that, effectively, Caerphilly town will be left without a police station. That's just a little over a year after it was reopened. The cost of purchasing and refurbishing the station has amounted to £315,000 of public money. And whilst, of course, I accept that policing isn't a devolved matter to the Welsh Government, theWelsh Government does fund police community support officers—nearly 150 in the Gwentforce area alone. So, can we have a statement fromWelsh Government expressing a view, and even a concern, on the effective loss of a station in a major town, but, crucially, the fact that it will be more difficult for people in Caerphillyto access services that are partly funded by the Welsh Government itself?

Julie James AC: I wasn't aware of that. I don'tknow if he's written to my Cabinet Secretary colleague for local government and public services. If he hasn't, I'd suggest he does so, and I can assist with getting a response to that.

Jane Hutt AC: With regard to the Barry incinerator, has the Minister reached a decision as to whether an EIA—anenvironmental impact assessment—will be required to accompany the most recent planning application for a water tower and car park? And is the Minister aware that the Barry DocksIncineratorAction Group is of the opinion that the entire project required an EIAto accompany the planning application in 2015?

Julie James AC: The Minister for Environmenthas not yet made the decisionabout the need for an environmental impact assessment toaccompany the planning application currently before the Vale of Glamorgan Council, relating to the water tank and to car parking. I do expect, though, that when the Minister issues a decisionletter, that it will address the issue of an EIAin respect of the applicationfor outlineplanning permission in 2015.

Mark Isherwood AC: Could I call for two statements? The first one is onpost-polio syndrome ahead of Post-polio Syndrome Day next Monday, 22 October. It was launched in 2013 to raiseawareness ofpost-polio syndrome amongst the general public, and the date chosen, 22 October, to be close to the officialWorld Polio Day, marked on 24 October, by Rotary's End Polio Now campaign.
People in remote regions with the syndrome can be particularly hard to reach. There have been outreachinitiates in Scotland and south-west England and, clearly, there will be people with the syndrome in remote parts of Wales, who are also living isolated lives, who need to be reached.This is recognised as a neurological condition. Up to 80 per cent of those who've had polio will go on to develop the syndrome after several years, with increasing weakness, fatigue, pain, swallowing problems, cold intolerance and much else. There's no specific cure, but properly managed, it can be stabilised, progress slowed, cost on the NHSreduced and the quality of life of the individuals affected improved. In a survey by YouGov a couple of years ago, 86 per cent of people recognised Parkinson's, Alzheimer’s and epilepsy, but only 7 per cent recognised the syndrome. The British Polio Fellowship is calling on parliamentariansacross the UK to help develop that awareness across the population, but also in Wales, particularly in the context of the needs of the population affected. I call for a statementon that.
My final call is for a statement onmodern slavery. Last Saturday, I attended the north Wales modern slavery forum, ahead of modern slavery week this week, and Anti-slavery Day across the UK on 18 October. It was organised by a third sector organisation, Haven of Light, but we had representatives from public, private, business sectors, we had the Wales anti-slavery co-ordinator, Jeff Cuthbert as the anti-slavery lead for the police and crime commissioners, and many more. We heard that, now, the biggest affected population are actually Britons who are trafficking victims. We heard that modern slavery was alive in business, agriculture, hospitality, crime and sexual exploitation across north Wales, and Wales's rural communities, towns and every single county, and much more besides. Clearly, this is topical because of the week, but clearly it's also an ongoing issue, where the number of people reported last year of being trafficked increased by 56 per cent, and the first six months of this year showed a multiple again of figures being reported, just in Wales.

Julie James AC: On modern slavery, I am very pleased to say that we're the first nation, of course, to have appointed the modern slavery champion and co-ordinator, and he's been working very hard across Wales to raise awareness and to ensure that people recognise it when they see it. We're very pleased indeed with the number of reports coming forward, which we see as recognition rather than an indication of increasing numbers, and it's obvious that the reporting is getting better with that awareness. And he's been working very hard indeed on that.
I'm very happy to bring forward a statement about how we're getting on, but I don't think it will be in the next few weeks, because there are a number of things that he's doing that I would like to report on. But, Llywydd, I'm very happy to schedule in a statement in due course, when we've got to the end of that particular programme of events. I think the Member makes a very good point about the awareness raising around that, and how important it is. And I was very pleased to be able to raise the issue with Caroline Nokes MP, when I met with her yesterday, in the context of very vulnerable people who have come to the end of the asylum and refugee system, who then disappear into the black market. We had a very constructive conversation about what we can do, in combination with the two Governments, to make sure that very vulnerable people don't become the victims of modern slavery, in an unintended consequence of two particular policies coming together. So, I was very pleased with that discussion.
In terms of the post-polio syndrome, the Member does always a very good job of highlighting the efforts that he makes to sponsor such events around Wales. I think you did an excellent job today of doing that. I for one will look forward to attending his event.

Bethan Sayed AC: I was wondering if we could please have a debate regarding general traffic and pollution control measures on major roads here in Wales? This is in the context of the fact that, last night, I arranged a packed public meeting about the proposed closure of junction 41 westbound. Now, this will affect the people of Port Talbot detrimentally. But there are other roads in Wales where I think that we need to be talking about pollution levels, and how we can better engage the public in these types of consultations. For example, we've got the report out at the moment on the changes proposed for the M4 near Port Talbot, but it's quite a long and hefty report, and it's quite detailed, and it's quite hard to read on occasion. And I think that—. When the consultation ends on 2 November, how are we going to get people engaged and enthused on trying to alleviate some of these problems, if we don't have enough time, or enough respect, potentially, from Welsh Government, to come out and talk to the community about that? Now, we fought this campaign already in 2013-14. We stopped the closure from happening; now, it's reared its head yet again, so the public are rightly annoyed at this proposal. So, I'm keen to try and engage them in a positive way, to look at alternatives to the closure, to look at environmentally friendly alternatives to the closure, so that we can be informed in the debate, as opposed to being bystanders to a decision that has already been made.

Julie James AC: Actually, that's not quite the case. Of course, the consultation is out at the moment, and we certainly do recognise the support felt locally to keep open junction 41 of the M4. We do have a legal duty to present options as part of the consultation process, which is under way as we speak. The consultation is the next stage in the process, and in seeking views on proposed measures, we're considering how to lower harmful levels of nitrogen dioxide along five locations in Wales, one of which, as the Member rightly points out, is the Port Talbot flyover section and junction 41. We've got to consider the measures against the set criteria and objectives, and take into consideration that exposure to heightened air pollution does pose a threat to life. And our primary concern cannot be the road user alone, but also the people who live and work near the roads under scrutiny. And although it certainly isn't one of the preferred measures, it can't be ruled out at this stage. It is part of the consultation, and we do recommend that views are provided as part of the consultation on the proposed measures. The consultation, Llywydd, for the information of all Members who are interested and for members of the public, is open until 2 November 2018.

Jack Sargeant AC: Leader of the house, last week it was World Homeless Day, an international day to raise awareness and encourage local communities to help those who are homeless, rough-sleeping or vulnerably housed. I was very pleased, last week, to join colleague and friendBethan Sayed AM in selling The Big Issue in Cardiff city centre, something that my dad and Bethan did last year. I was able to sell five magazines, which I think was quite good going—[Interruption.]—and even Bethan beat her record as well. So, well done to her.

Bethan Sayed AC: He beat me. [Laughter.]

Jack Sargeant AC: The experience showed me the importance of stopping and having a conversation, because that really can help someone, not just buying the magazine itself. I've said many times before that even a smile on the street can save a life. So, this week I'm also looking forward to joining a constituent of mine, Adam Dandy, of SHARE shop, on the streets for an evening on Thursday in order to raise awareness and sleeping out.
I think it's always important to look at the best practice when it comes to ending the epidemic of homelessness, because 300,000 people are homeless across the UK—that's one in every 200 homeless—and there has been an increase of 169 per cent since 2009. Now, to our shame, an average of three people in the UK die on the streets of the UK every single week. If we contrast that to Finland, leader of the house, where they adopted a housing first model in 2008—since then, they've seen a decrease of 18 per cent in homelessness, thanks to this initiative. I perhaps wonder if the Government would be able to bring forward a statement on this type of model, the housing first approach, and whether that might work here in Wales, and if so, when we will see it. Thank you.

Julie James AC: Yes, well, Jack Sargeant, did very well by selling that many. I have to say, that beats my own record as well. But it does give you a really good insight, doesn't it, into actually what it's like to stand there as a street seller and to have people just ignore you as if you're not there? I think I can't emphasise enough, in conjunction with himself and with Bethan, who I know has long taken part in these as well, how much difference it can make to actually talk to somebody and say, if you can't buy one, why you can't buy one and all the rest of it. I buy my Big Issue always off the same person, so I always have to explain to others that I feel that I want to give my custom to the woman I've been supporting for some little while.
But I would also like to draw Members' attention to the fact that there are apps available in most council areas in Wales now—StreetLink or street sleep apps; you can Google them—and they give you information about what you can do if you see somebody who's very vulnerable, who you think needs to be assisted by homeless options or housing options, or whatever it is your local council—. And I do recommend that people get hold of these, because they can be very helpful and also tell you the best thing to be able to do if you don't want to give money—to buy food or clothing or whatever, or something that the person might be able to use immediately just to tide them over, and then also to signpost them right. So, I do commend all of those things.
Also, Llywydd, I'm going to indulge myself, if you'll permit me, by saying I'm delighted that the homelessness football is coming to Wales as well—street football—and I'm really delighted about that. I very much support that initiative in my own constituency and I know that Wales will be very proud to host it here.

Nick Ramsay AC: Leader of the house, winter is approaching and as sure as night follows day, the A4042—I'll watch my turn of phrase in future—a key north-south strategic route through my constituency, has once again been closed at Llanellen, due to flooding—a common problem. Could I ask for an update from the Welsh Government as to where we are with improving this stretch of road? I know there have been discussions in the past between Welsh Government and local landowners in terms of providing a solution to this road. It has once again caused massive problems for commuters and local people alike, and with the fast-developing critical care centre at Llanfrechfa Grange in Cwmbran, it's going to become even more important that this road is fully open all the time, so that ambulances, which previously had been taking people to Nevill Hall Hospital, can now get to the specialist critical care centre at Llanfrechfa. So, it's becoming a more important route, not less, and local people are looking to the Welsh Government to provide a solution, both in the short term and the longer term, so that local people don't have the sort of disruption they've had over the last few years.

Julie James AC: Flooding, of course, has been a serious issue across Wales for roads and for other areas. The Minister is actually about to make a statement on the outcome of the flooding, including the review about the efficacy of the measures in place and what can be done about it. So, I'm sure the Member will have most of the questions he raised there answered.

Llyr Gruffydd AC: May I ask for two statements from the Cabinet Secretary for Energy, Planning and Rural Affairs, please? The first relating to the UK Government’s announcement today that they are to hold an independent review on how agricultural funding will be distributed among the nations within the UK post Brexit, because it is crucial that this is done properly in terms of the interests of the agricultural sector in Wales, where, of course, we represent 4.7 per cent of the population but receive 9.4 per cent of the CAP funding coming to the UK. That, of course, reflects the rural nature of Wales and the importance of agriculture to the Welsh economy.
There’s been some discussion on the importance of Barnett and not using Barnett as the foundation for this, and we’ve heard some positive noises in that regard, but there was a significant sentence in some of the reports, stating:

Llyr Gruffydd AC: 'the Barnett formula alone will not be used as a basis for distributing funds to farmers after 2022.'

Llyr Gruffydd AC: Does that suggest that, perhaps, Barnett will be part of the equation? And if it is, then, clearly, that could cause major problems for us here in Wales. So, I would like to know, for example, what the Welsh Government’s input was to the remit of the review that’s been put in place, what involvement will the Welsh Government have in choosing the Welsh representative on the panel, and, of course, what will the model that the was Government would wish to promote be as part of that review?
May I also ask for an oral statement? We’ve heard in an announcement today from the Cabinet Secretary the name of the interim chair of Natural Resources Wales. From that written statement, which was relatively brief, there is one sentence mentioning the background of this individual, mainly in the health sector. It appears that the individual has no experience of the environmental and agricultural sectors, which, of course, are the main focus of NRW, or any experience of working in Wales or any knowledge of the structures. That’s one thing, but more seriously, I have to say that in looking at the individual’s background it appears that in 2006 he left Liverpool council under a cloud with accusations that he had passed sensitive documents on to Government. In the same year, 22 MPs wrote an open letter saying that they couldn’t work with him following his appointment as chief executive of the regional health board. In 2010, he was appointed chief executive of Alder Hey hospital, encouraging the gentleman who was going to rebuild the hospital to resign in protest. And the person who is now commissioner for Merseyside police describes him as, and I quote,

Llyr Gruffydd AC: 'A man in whom I have no confidence and for whom I have no respect'.

Llyr Gruffydd AC: Now, I think we should at least have a full oral statement in this Parliament rather than one brief sentence in a written statement, so that we can understand why the Cabinet Secretary and the Welsh Government have confidence in this individual, when it’s clear that so many other people don’t share that confidence.

Julie James AC: On the land consultation, the Cabinet Secretary forEnergy, Planning and Rural Affairs, in an open letter in September, provided clarity on the proposals for reform that, which are set out in the 'Brexit and our land' consultation. The proposals are exactly those proposals. The consultation closes on 30 October. We are receiving responses at quite a rate. It's too early to offer an analysis of the responses we've seen so far. I don't believe we've had any input into the UK Government consultation announced to that question. Obviously, once the consultation closes, there will be an analysis of the results from the consultation on the proposals.
On the NRW interim chair, there has been a written statement. The Member has a number of ways that he can ask questions on a written statement; I suggest that those are utilised.

Andrew RT Davies AC: Leader of the house, could I join in the calls that have come from the Plaid Cymru benches in relation to a Cabinet statement from the Cabinet Secretary for rural affairs in relation to the nominee she's likely to put forward, if indeed she will put a nominee forward, to the review group that Michael Gove has set up to look into funding options around the whole of the UK? It was welcome news last week that any future funding will not be Barnettised and there will be a greater redistribution of the money should the need require. But the review group obviously will give the recommendations into the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs set-up and also Treasury, so it would be good to understand how Welsh Government will engage with that review, and, indeed,they have been askedto put a nominee forward for that. So, the understanding of who that nominee might be is critically important in influencing, obviously, the outcome of the review.
Secondly, in your role as leader of the house, could I enquire of you how the M4 relief road announcement proposal might be taken forward? The First Minister has indicated that he will take that decision—the current First Minister, I might add. As the clock is now ticking and there are only seven weeks left before the current First Minister does stand down, I did put this question to the Cabinet Secretary in the short debate last week, and I was unable to elicit much of a response. But this is Government business. You are the leader of the house, who tables Government business, so I'd be grateful to understand whether you have an understanding of when that announcement might come from the First Minister, and, indeed, how it might be tabled, because I think that it is critical that that announcement is delivered on the floor of the Seneddrather than through the press. Can you give us that assurance that that'll be the case and that that's the timeline that the Government is working to? As I said, we know what the timeline has to be—it has to be within seven weeks—so, hopefully, you can give us some clarity on that.
Could I also seek a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport in relation to the procurement of the new trains that were announced in July 2017—five new class 769 trains were announced as being acquired for the Welsh rail network. We welcome the announcements around the positive investment in the train service here in Wales, but this announcement made in July 2017 for these trains to arrive on the Welsh network by May 2018 has not happened to date. Those trains have not arrived on the Welsh network, yet we are now some six months past the delivery date. It is important that people have confidence that the new announcements that are coming forward will be delivered upon. If you look at this announcement, which was made, as I said, in July 2017, to date those trains have not arrived on the rail network here in Wales, despite them being made available, or supposed to be made available, by May 2018. Can we have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary as to when this rolling stock will be available for the Welsh rail network, in particular as we go into the peak winter months now, when we know there are challenges from the elements on the network. More rolling stock would alleviate some of the pressures that the travelling public have.

Julie James AC: Thanks. On that last one, I'll get the Cabinet Secretary to write to the Member, setting out where we are with that timescale.FootnoteLink
On the M4 timescale, the current schedule for Government business shows that there's a debate scheduled for the week commencing 4 December, I think it is—the penultimate week of the winter term, anyway, is the week that's currently scheduled for the M4 debate, with the timetable going backwards from there.
I think the two other things the Member asked I'd largely answered in response to Llyr.

Information further to Plenary

Thank you, leader of the house.

3. Statement by the Minister for Environment: Update on Flood Impacts of Storm Callum

That brings us to the statement by the Minister for Environment, which is an update on the flood impacts of storm Callum. I call on the Minister to make the statement—Hannah Blythyn.

Hannah Blythyn AC: Diolch, Llywydd.I’m grateful for the opportunity to provide an update on the flooding experienced across Wales over the past weekend as a result of storm Callum. I would like to start by sending my sympathies to all those who have been flooded over this weekend and in particular to the family of Corey Sharpling, who lost his life as a result of a landslide.
I’d like to place on record this Government’s gratitude to the emergency services, local authorities, Natural Resources Wales and Dŵr Cymru Welsh Water, who worked tirelessly around the clock this weekend to support those who have been flooded, close roads and evacuate properties, and who are now working with communities to support their recovery.
I recognise how devastating and distressing flooding can be to those communities affected. This morning, I saw at first hand some of the impacts when I visited Llandysul, where I met with residents and the teams who responded over the weekend and who continue to work on the recovery.
Storm Callum brought large amounts of rainfall in Wales, with up to 160mm being recorded in a 24-hour period—more than the monthly average for this time of the year. During the peak period of this event, NRW had issued 40 flood warnings. This had a massive impact on our rivers, with some recording their highest levels on record, and, in many places, drainage systems were overwhelmed. Unfortunately, this has led to flooding of properties, roads, railways and agricultural land around the country.
Local authorities and NRW are continuing to work to assess the full extent of the damage and impacts. However, we are aware of flooding to properties in the local authorities of Carmarthenshire, Ceredigion, Neath Port Talbot, Powys, Bridgend, Caerphilly, Rhondda Cynon Taf, Swansea and the Isle of Anglesey. Our current estimates are that 218 properties across Wales suffered internal flooding, of which 195 were homes, the majority of these being across the southern half of the country. Local authorities and NRW are continuing to pull together information about flooded properties and, over the coming few days, this figure is likely to change. In addition, Dŵr Cymru have also reported at least 29 properties flooded internally.
Storm Callum had a significant impact on the rail services across the entire Wales and borders network, with flooding and high winds resulting in the cancellation of a number of services, as well as impacting on general performance. Flood damage was particularly severe on the Heart of Wales line, where the wash-out of a significant section of track near Llandeilo means that the line will remain partially closed for a number of days yet. In addition to the impact on rail infrastructure, a significant number of trains were also damaged during storm Callum through hitting trees and branches, as well as having to run through flood waters.
A number of roads and bridges around the country were impacted over the weekend, with some remaining closed. The road closures as a result of flooding were not due to failing infrastructure, but the sheer volume of run-off onto the network or from rivers breaking out of their banks. Most trunk roads reopened on Sunday and all are now fully open.
Power utilities reported that over 38,000 customers were affected by the severe weather. However, all customers were restored within 24 hours.
There were a number of reported cases of animals being caught up in the flash floods over the weekend. Various agencies in Wales, including emergency, third sector and enforcement, responded to reports of animals in danger. Whilst they were able to help in many cases, unfortunately the conditions and risk to human life meant it was not always possible to intervene.
Whilst we have seen flooding to many areas across the country, we have also received reports of assets working effectively to reduce the risk in many places. Two examples are reports from Ystradgynlais and Usk, where defences did their job and prevented flooding to the towns. This helps to show how our sustained investment in flood risk management, awareness raising and warning systems has had a positive impact.
We now need to understand the full extent of impacts associated with storm Callum to inform discussions with local authorities and to see what we can do to support those communities affected. Following a major flood event, local authorities have a statutory requirement to investigate its cause and impacts, and provide recommendations going forward. This may include input from NRW, and Welsh Water where required, as well as what lessons can be learnt for the future. I know that some local authorities are considering a hardship scheme and are already discussing with finance officials whether Welsh Government can assist with emergency financial assistance. This Government would like to give that our full consideration.
I recognise the importance of adapting to our changing and challenging climate, which is why flood risk management remains one of my priorities. We are committed to continuing investment in flood and coastal risk management and over the lifetime of this Government will invest over £350 million across Wales. Our investment is not focused solely on building and maintaining defences, but also about community resilience and prevention, through better information, raising awareness of flooding and preparing flood plans to reduce the impacts on lives and property.
We cannot prevent all flooding occurring, so rebuilding resilience and learning from these events is vital. As I started by saying, we cannot do this alone, and I would like to conclude by reiterating my thanks to all those involved in the response to these flooding events and who continue to work hard to assist in the recovery.

Angela Burns AC: Storm Callum did, indeed, wreck homes, businesses and stole lives, and my deepest sympathies go to the family and friends of the young man, Corey Sharpling, who lost his life. But I also have to say that the landslide that took this young man's life also saw some truly heroic efforts, and I would like to publicly pay tribute to two Carmarthenshire County Council workers, because, on that road when the landslide came down with gallons and gallons of water, it swept the lorry off the road, over the bank and into the river, because it's a river road that goes through Cwmduad. The lorry went in head first, the driver was under water and those two Carmarthenshire County Council workers leapt into that boiling inferno, smashed the windows and grabbed him out. I'm sure that throughout Wales there are other tales of people who've done some truly heroic actions, and I'd like to pay tribute to them.
I'd like to thank Carmarthenshire County Council, Dyfed Powys Police, Mid and West Wales Fire and Rescue Service and Natural Resources Wales, but I also particularly want to pay tribute to Carmarthenshire County Council—to Mark James, Ruth Mullen and the staff, who've all been amazing. Already, the housing teams have been out, the regeneration teams have been out, next week a mobile hub will be set up to help people with benefits, with signposting, with rate rebates, and their positive action and decision to put £100,000 today on the table today for individuals, and £200,000 for businesses, makes, I'm afraid, Minister, the Welsh Government's statement today look as wet as the storm.Minister, will you be able to offer any hard money to councils throughout Wales to assist in a hardship fund? Are you able to commit to matching people like Carmarthenshire County Council, who've already put £300,000? You do say in your statement that you'd like to give it your full consideration—but it's today; they need the money today. There are livesdestroyed; they need to start rebuilding today. I worry that the Government will spend ages considering everything before it takes action. Will you please clarify that for me?
Councils might be able to support the smaller businesses, but, of course, funds will be needed for the big, mid and large businesses, especially those that were unable to get flood risk insurance—a number of businesses, again in Carmarthen. There's the big company who have all the pick-up trucks and the rescue trucks—every single one has gone—they can't get insurance because they're by the river. This is an issue, Llywydd, that the environment and sustainability committee have looked at in various iterations of this Assembly and we're still no further forward in helping businesses and homes that are inadvertently affected bywhat are now major flood risks to get that insurance. So, these people—their livelihoods have been wiped out. So, I'd like to know what you might be able to do to help them.
Minister, will you also waive the trigger point that councils need to reach before they can access any of the Welsh Government hardship fund moneys? That trigger point is set quite high and I think, in a case like this flood, it would be useful if that could be set aside. Minister, it's also the small things—so, for example, the councils are out cleaning houses, dealing with ruined goods—which in turn will affect their municipal waste recycling targets. Are you able to consider setting aside the detritus that comes from the storm so that it's not part of those recycling targets, because that will harm the councils in the long run in meeting Welsh Government targets?
Above all, Minister, this was awful, and in my constituency of CarmarthenWest and, in fact, in the whole of Carmarthen, there's been a massive impact, from the cafe that employed 12 people that is going to struggle to ever open again to the large companies that have lost so much. So, I wonder, Minister, if you will agree to update us all in a month's time via an oral statement because we need to let everyone know that Wales is still open despite storm Callum, and on my behalf and as a direct response for the businesses of Carmarthen, can we please let everyone know that Carmarthenis still open despite storm Callum?

Hannah Blythyn AC: Can I thank the Member for her contribution? You made it quite clear yourself that Carmarthenis still open for business despite storm Callum. You're absolutely right, as you opened your remarks today, to talk about those amazing examples of bravery and people just going above and beyond to help their fellow citizens in a time of crisis. One thing that struck me when I visited this morning is that, despite looking at how devastated and distressed people were by what has happened, was that absolute sense of community spirit, and the stories I heard about people helping one another—the paddling centre, where people come from all over the country—. They were still smiling. For me, it was very important, as the Minister, to go there and speak to people but also to hear from them, so it gives you that extra passion you need to really know that we really need to make a difference to support these people.
I think Carmarthenshire council's action is to be commended. I met with representatives of the council this morning. They were talking about their emergency fund and what they're giving per household as well. I'm acutely aware of time pressures and the need to respond and the need to support people at their time of need now. So, we're just getting that information in. As soon as we have that—talking with local authorities, and they already are in touch with my officials today to look at what has been and what the impacts are and what needs to be done—I'm sure we'll be able to respond as promptly as possible.
In terms of the detritus you mentioned from the storm and the clean-up operation, I'm sure that's something we'd be willing to consider to set aside as well.

Helen Mary Jones AC: I would like to begin by thanking the Minister for her timely statement. I'd like to associate myself with the comments that she and Angela Burns have made, extending my sympathies to—and those of Plaid Cymru—to all those affected, as already expressed earlier by Adam Price, and particularly to the family and friends of Adam's constituent, Corey Sharpling, who tragically lost his life. I was very touched by the comments that Angela made about how many brave people have really stuck their necks out to protect themselves, their friends and their neighbours across the Mid and West Wales region at this difficult time. I'd like to concur with the comments that the Minister has made and that Angela Burns has made—the gratitude they've expressed to the emergency services,to all public services,and to local authority staff across Mid and West Wales who worked so hard over the weekend to assist those affected. I had, for example, particularly positive feedback from constituents with regard to how useful the emergency helplines run by Ceredigion and Carmarthencouncils have proved to be at this very difficult time.It's very pleasant to be able to report back on an emergency situationand a response to that that really does seem to be working for people.I'm very glad that the Minister has been able to visit one of the communities affected, and I know that my colleagues Ben Lake MP,Jonathan Edwards MP and Adam Price AMwill be visiting more of the areas affected on Friday.My colleague Elin Jones AM, ein Llywydd ni, for Ceredigionhas particularlyasked me to mention the efforts that communities themselves have made and that volunteers from the third sector have made to help with the clear-up after this devastating storm.
This was, of course, the worst flooding faced by many of the communities in my region for 30 years, but I'm sure that the Minister will agree with me that the effects of climate change mean that these extreme events are going to become more common. Does the Minister agree with me that it is now time—? And she has mentioned co-ordination, but I think we need to take this further.Does she agree with me that it's now time for the Welsh Government to develop a climate change adaptation plan to ensure that we are fully prepared and that our communities are adequately protected?And will she undertake today to discuss the development of such a plan with colleagues across Government and to report back to the Chamber on progress? I don't mean to suggest, Llywydd,that the Welsh Government is not taking any action in this area, but I think that it is now time for us to really consider co-ordinating that actioneven more effectively across portfolios.
In her statement, the Minister mentions that there were communities that were successfully protected by existing flood defences, and I think we'd all join her in being very pleased about that, but she will be aware thatthere were situations where existing defences were breached, and not all of them long-standing defences. Will the Minister undertake today to review the Welsh Government's priorities with regard to investment in flood protection, and indeed the nature of the flood defences that we're using, in the light of these breaches?
In her statement, the Minister states that road closures were not due to failing infrastructure. I hope that she would agree with me that we need to be adapting our infrastructure to meet the needs of very changing times.I'm sure she will be aware, for example, that most of the bridges across the Teifi were closed for long periods, creating significant problems for emergency services, for example, accessing Glangwilihospital from Ceredigion.Will she commit today to reviewing with the appropriate local authorities and public bodies the resilience of infrastructure in the affected areas, particularly addressing the strength of bridges across the Tawe and the Teifi?Some of them, as she will be aware, are of a considerable age and will have been potentially adversely affected by the strength of this event.
With regard to resources, can the Minister tell us whether the Welsh Government has approached the Westminster Government, or whether you will do so, with a view to taking advantage potentially of the financial support available from the EU solidarity fund? I think this could prove to be a valuable source of additional resources at this difficult time. Can she—? And she has mentioned this, but I'd like to press her further on this—. She mentioned this in response to Angela Burns, but can she provide assurances that the Welsh Government will be assisting affected local authorities by the emergency financial assistance scheme? Llywydd,nobody would expect the Minister to put a price on that today, but I do feel that we need to seek her assurance that there will be support available, even if she can't tell us exactly how much at present.
And, finally, can the Minister tell us what support the Welsh Government will be able to offer the farming community, many of whom will face devastating losses of equipment and livestock? Diolch yn fawr.

Hannah Blythyn AC: I thank the Member for her comprehensive contribution, and I'll do my best to address the questions that you've raised. I think you're also right again to pay tribute to and recognise the efforts put in by volunteers, by the local community, as well as the emergency services, to whom not only the local communities but I think all of usowe a debt of gratitude. And it is good to hear the positive stories too of emergency helplines working well, that prevention that's been put in place.One of the things I heard back this morning too was how some of theNatural Resources Wales alerts helped to notify people so that when they were in a flood-risk area they were able to take action to move their cars or to take certain steps to actually prevent the impact on their home and their area as well.
In termsof looking at a review of our priorities, after any event like this, when our capability and our resilience have been tested, it is only right and proper that we look at what's worked and also look at what hasn't worked and see the things that do need to be changed in future. So, we do expectthat we will work now with local authorities,Natural Resources Wales, and all other stakeholders tolook at what has happened and where we may need to change things for the future, becauseit's always right that we learn lessons and we build on the work we are doing while maintaining that commitment to flood prevention across the whole of Wales as well.
In terms of a climate change adaptation plan and flood prevention, of course, climate change is one of the factors that is considered in terms of how we map flood risk and address those priorities in our prevention within Wales as it stands, but, certainly, as the threats of climate change grow ever greater—the challenges that brings—it's only right that we consider that as a whole. I'm sure I and the Cabinet Secretary for energy will be working together closely, with other colleagues across Cabinet, on our approach to climate change adaptation going forward, which will obviously consider all things holistically, including flood prevention and mitigation as well.
In terms of emergency funding available to help, I'm sure this is something that—like I said to my colleague Angela Burns, there are already conversations taking place on that with officials and it's something that, as a Welsh Government, we are open to and sympathetic to. And whilst you're right that I can't put a figure on a number right now, right here in this Chamber, certainly we're aware of the need to press ahead with this and also to look at, actually, do we need to consider the trigger as well as part of that.
Finally, just on the point of theEU solidarity funding, my understanding at present is that this is only available when the cost of flood damage exceeds £1 billion. Obviously, all things on the table, all things need to be considered, and, obviously, you're right that any fundingallocation would need to be handled through discussion by both Welsh Government and UK Government officers and Ministers. To my awareness, no discussions have yet taken place, but, obviously, that would depend on the outcome of the reviews that are taking place in Wales at the moment in all the communities affected.

Michelle Brown AC: Thank you for your statement, Minister. Along with Angela Burns, my heartfelt sympathies go to the family and friends ofCorey Sharpling, who sadly died in a landslip. And also my sympathies go to other people in the UK who died or who have suffered injury in the recent storm. I'm sure that all Members in this place will do our utmost toassist them and those people whose homes and businesses have been damaged by the high winds and flooding caused by storm Callum. I'd also like to echo the thanks and appreciation to the emergency services and others and members of the public who worked to help their friends, neighbours and other people through the difficulties caused by the storm.
I appreciate that some communities will have benefited greatly from flood defences that have already been put in place, but, in some places, those defences have clearly been overwhelmed, and, understandably, residents will be concerned. So, can you confirm what steps you will take to review flood defences, both in communities that already have them and where residents and businesses may feel they're missing out?
You've acknowledged in your statement that animals were caught up in the flooding, and there have been occasions of sheep having been washed away and other animals being stranded. I'd like to ask you what support the Welsh Government can offer those farmers who've lost livestock and now have injured livestock because of the flooding. There are also reports of horses having to be rescued from the flooding itself. So, are you satisfied that the correct level of resources and adequate information are there to help horse owners and owners of similar animals and farmers as well to plan for, and deal with, the consequences of flooding? What conversations are you having with farmers regarding their role in preventing and mitigating the risk of flooding, and what support will you offer them so that they can actually fulfil that role?
Llandysul PaddlersCanoe Club is a community-based enterprise and has already started fundraising to address the damage caused, which they estimate at some £200,000. Can the Welsh Government consider offering some level of support for community initiatives affected by severe weather? And the effective provision of utilities is a life-and-death measure for some people—in particular, hospitals. So, what discussions have you had with utility companies about their response to the storm and any challenges they faced that Welsh Government can address for the future? Thank you.

Hannah Blythyn AC: I thank the Member for her contribution and her questions.
In terms of looking at—. You referred to how flood defenceshave been in place and have worked and to assess whether things have worked as well as we would have liked them to do. As I said previously, it's our duty, when anything like this happens, that we should review and assess what has happenedwhen we get all the information in from local authorities and Natural Resources Wales and all the stakeholders and communities involved, and make sure that we're able to learn from that and revise accordingly, and that is something that I will take very seriously, as the Minister for environment, working alongside my relevant Government and Cabinet colleagues. So, that is something we will look at and will feed into our future plans in terms of when we look at where our priorities are for prevention.
You're right to point out, and I mentioned in my statement, the impact on landowners and the incidents of some sheep, and farmers. In terms of how our—. I think it's important for us to work with farmers and landowners, who understand flood risk and understand land management in their areas, which is why, when we're looking at updating our natural strategy for flood prevention, which is ongoing at the moment, landowners and farmers will be part of that as well, to make sure that we can take into account and learn from all the points that you've raised in terms of land management, and animal and horse owners as well.
You mentioned the paddlers club and I actually met them today in Llandysul and saw what they were doing in terms of the clean-up operation and how people have come from all over the countryand their crowdfunding. In terms of this—you know, we need to work with all the stakeholders in the community and work, as a Welsh Government, to see how we're best placed to give support going forward.

Vikki Howells AC: Thank you, Minister, for your statement.As I'm sure you will know, my constituency was especially affected by storm Callum, with Aberdare being widely described as the town hardest hit by flooding.In Rhondda Cynon Taf, around 40 homes and 29 businesses have been flooded, many of which are in my constituency. And, in Penrhiwceiber, over 30 people who were trapped on a train in rising flood water had to be rescued by South Wales Fire and Rescue Service using an inflatable walkway.
I want to repeat the comments of other Members earlier in offering their thanks to the emergency services, to council workers, volunteers and others for their prompt actions, and also to pass on my sympathies to all those who have been affected. I welcome your comments regarding giving full consideration to granting emergency financial assistance to local authorities, but I want to make the point that it's not just about the short-term immediate expenditure. InRCT, for example, £100,000 has already been spent on that and there's another £100,000 earmarked for investigative and clearance work. So, will you ensure that you give consideration to long-term measures such as that which can help to mitigate the effects of flooding and save money in the long term?
Secondly, we know,Minister, that afforestation of upland areas is one of the most effective and environmentally sustainable ways to mitigate flooding in our Valleys communities. Indeed, if you look to the Lake District, following storm Desmond in 2015, the National Trust planted 1,400 trees there, which are already helping toprevent run-off and reduce flooding. So, withNRW having cleared much land in the past few years, such as at Glenboi in my constituency, due to ash dieback and larch disease, and replanting in some key areas not having yet taken place, what more can be done to accelerate the crucial process of afforestation?

Hannah Blythyn AC: I thank the Member for her questions and contribution, especially on behalf of your constituents who've also been impacted by the flood at the weekend. My every sympathy for anybody who has been impacted by it, because we see how distressing it is to see your home or your business and your community impacted in that way, and then the aftermath of the clear-up as well.
You make a very good point in terms of afforestation. Natural flood-risk management is definitely something to be considered when it comes to reducing flood risk, and that will form part of our natural strategy, which we're compiling and updating at the moment. That will include things such as flood storage areas, tree planting, use of woody debris and leaky dams and reintroducing meanders, so it's of course something that—. I fully agree with the Member that this is an important way in terms of how we tackle flood management in the future.
Because of the support now with the clear-up operation and the immediate costs that need to be covered—. There's obviously work that needs to be done immediately, but you're absolutely right to talk about long-term measures, because that's the whole point of having—that's why we look at flood prevention and flood-risk management, because we want to be in the best position we can be in the future,not just to prevent flooding to protect properties and businesses and homes, but for people's peace of mind, too. Because, when you've been impacted once by a flood, it's always going to be there on your mind every time there's heavy rainfall. Every time there's something like that, that is always going to be playing on your mind, and that's something that really hit home to me from the people I visited today. So, it's something that we really need to do. That's why it's so important that we don't think just short term; it is a long-term strategy in terms of how we protect people in Wales.

Andrew RT Davies AC: Minister, thank you for your statement today, and I also join in other Members' comments and condolences to the families and those affected by the—I think that 'horrific events' isn't too strong, really, when you see some of the images that have come out from across Wales. When death is obviously one of the effects of those events, then they are horrific, to say the least.
I'd like to just press you on two issues, if I may, Minister. In your statement you talk about how flood risk management remains one of your priorities, and I fully endorse that. But yet, in your remit letter, which the leader of the opposition did touch on during First Minister's questions, of the five points for you as a Minister—not the Cabinet Secretary, but for you specifically as a Minister—flood prevention is not one of those five points that is in your remit letter for this year. Recycling is, woodlands are, and tackling poor air quality, improving the understanding of the value of nature, and reversing the decline in biodiversity. So, it's not unreasonable to ask: why was it missing from your remit letter to NRW, given that they're the body who obviously oversee the planning and implementation of flood defences around Wales?
Yesterday, the First Minister did indicate that money would be available. Again, I appreciate that you're not in a position to put a figure to that, and it would be wrong, in fact, such a short time after, for you to actually say, 'This is x amount available.' It would be worth reflecting on how much will be available. But can you confirm that the money that the First Minister was talking of will be new money to your department, or will it have to be money that will have to be found from within your current resources? Because, as I said, the First Minister clearly did identify money would be made available, so that's the most senior person in Government saying that, giving that commitment, but I think it's important to understand—and the finance Secretary is in his chair—whether he is making new money available to you, and, in which case, that would be a very welcome addition to your budget.

Hannah Blythyn AC: Can I thank the Member for his contribution and his words of sympathy and support for all those impacted? You raise, in terms of questioning, whether this is a priority for this Government, I can categorically make clear and say this is a priority, not just for myself, but for this Government. And you raised the remit letter. When I came into post and announced the statement, I outlined a number of priorities, five of which you listed there. I also made clear in that statement that flood prevention was a key priority that interlinked and interwove a lot of that. So, it is absolutely 100 per cent a priority for this Government, which is why we're investing £350 million in this Assembly term, and £54 million in this financial year alone, and that will not change.
In terms of how we go forward, the First Minister said yesterday that funding would be made available in these circumstances of flooding. Well, it goes back to what I've said already. We need to look at what's happened, review as quickly as we possibly can, working with all stakeholders and local authorities, with NRW, to look at what works and what we need to prioritise and change. Potentially, it's perhaps—. I'm of the view that this is absolutely a priority, and we need to make sure that, despite the backdrop of austerity, money is coming in to flooding as well. Theresa May says austerity is over, so if you want to pick up the phone and tell her to give us a call and give us some more money so that we can get some money towards flooding—

Andrew RT Davies AC: Is it new money? Is it new money?

Hannah Blythyn AC: But—.

Carry on, Minister, you don't need to listen to anybody if you choose not to.

Hannah Blythyn AC: Diolch,Llywydd. It certainly is a priority for this Government to ensure that we have the funding and the priority needed available to make sure that we address flood prevention and mitigation in Wales, and that we can reassure and provide peace of mind to all communities that have been impacted by flooding.

Neil McEvoy AC: We've seen storm Callum and the dreadful destruction, floods everywhere, and tragedy, as mentioned earlier. The bay was flooded. Yet, the disputed area around Roath brook remains perfectly well and not flooded at all, so my question to you would be: do you think that you can spend the £0.5 million earmarked for the Roathbrook area better elsewhere, and will you reconsider?

Hannah Blythyn AC: I was banking on the Member bringing up this within this statement. Look, the Member will be well aware of the situation now in terms of Roathbrook, whereNRW are working with the residents group there, and the work has been paused following the residents doing some modelling work of their own. That remains the case. I, in fact, visited the site just a few weeks ago to see the work that's been done to date, and Roath Mill Gardens, where there hasn't been work done. That is something that's a separate matter. That's where it is. It's paused. That's being considered, and I expect NRW to come back with some proposals on that.
But whilst I recognise the emotion and the concerns around the proposals for Roathpark, and particularly the impact in terms of the tree removal, I think, for me, and for many communities across Wales—and we've seen the impact of flooding over the past weekend—it's absolutely right that we should consider and we should invest, and I think people need flood protection and prevention. We shouldn't shy away from—. There are people who have seen their homes wrecked and their businesses wrecked this weekend.

Neil McEvoy AC: Not where Roath brook is. It's not flooded in decades.

Hannah Blythyn AC: I'm speaking now. Tell that to the people who—. Flood prevention is so important, and it's an investment in these communities. Roath brook is a separate matter. Today, we are talking about those communities that have been affected by storm Callum and how this Government will stand up and invest in those communities to prevent further floods and to give peace of mind.

Thank you, Minister.

4. Statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Services: Findings of the Independent Accelerated Programme for Amber Review

The next item is item 4, which has been postponed until 6 November.

5. Statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance: Update on Regional Investment after Brexit

Which brings us to item 5, a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance: an update on regional investment after Brexit. I call on the Cabinet Secretary to make the statement, Mark Drakeford.

Mark Drakeford AC: Thank you very much, Llywydd. Since the 2016 referendum, the Welsh Government has been engaged in a public debate about replacing European Union regional investment once the UK exists the EU. I’m grateful to the Chairs of the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee and the Finance Committee for their work in informing this debate.
Last month, the Finance Committee published its inquiry report into preparations for replacing EU funding for Wales, and we will respond formally to that shortly. I welcome the committee’s support for a made-in-Wales approach. It reinforces our clearly expressed message that the UK Government has no mandate to extend the proposed and ill-defined shared prosperity fund to Wales.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, in July of this year, the Welsh Government published an independent report analysing the responses to our policy paper 'Regional Investment in Wales after Brexit'. That paper set out principles and a direction of travel to guide the replacement of European structural and investment funds in Wales, and received widespread support. I believe there is an emerging consensus here in Wales on how we want to see replacement funding work, and an appetite to get on with it. Amongst the key characteristics of that future is that it requires a made-in-Wales policy framework focused on outcomes, one that addresses regional inequalities and is guided by the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 and the regionalisation set out in our economic action plan.
We need a system that focuses on functional Welsh regions, providing them and local areas with the authority to make more decisions; a system that is less bureaucratic, but still rooted in the partnership model that has served us well; a system that is based on an open rulebook, but with less rigidity in geography and in purpose; a system that provides a full return on public investment but that is proportionate in arrangements for access, monitoring and audit.
I've held detailed discussions with my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport to develop our thinking, so that we can be confident, for example, that opportunities in rural Wales are not missed, and can ensure that this vital investment in Wales is central to the approach contained in the economic action plan, where public investment is predicated on delivering public goods.
So,Llywydd, we continue to press the UK Government for the £370 million annually we'd receive for our European structural and investment funds to be replaced in full so Wales will not be a penny worse off, as promised so often during the referendum campaign. We also expect decisions on how and where replacement funding in Wales is deployed to remain here in Wales—as has been the case for the last 18 years and which is clearly set out in the devolution settlement. There is simply no support in Wales for a centralised or UK-administered replacement fund. It is wrong in principle, it is undeliverable in practice and it is time that UK Ministers understood just that.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, it's not my main purpose to focus primarily on what has been achieved in those areas that have benefited from EU funds, but nor is it in Wales’s interests to undermine or under-represent what has been put in place with the aid of that investment:a sharp fall in economic inactivity and rise in employment rates; a dramatic improvement in the skills of our people, with a major decline in the proportion of the working-age population with no qualifications; and a narrowing of the gap between different parts of Wales, and a narrowing of the gap between the Welsh economy and the rest of the United Kingdom.
The £370 million we receive annually from the European Union matters to Wales because the livelihoods of our people, communities and businesses are at stake. During this programme period alone, EU projects have already helped to create 8,400 jobs, helped 11,000 people into work, and supported people to achieve over 68,000 qualifications. People’s lives are being altered for the better, families are growing up in homes with work, and people are being supported to take up education and training.
And this is happening, in part, through the 970 new enterprises created and the 5,400 businesses supported by EU-funded projects. Those will generate tax revenue and jobs well into the future, helping us to deliver a more prosperous Wales.
Now, Llywydd, as we look to that future, Welsh partners have highlighted two key concerns around future arrangements: that replacement funding could be directed away from regional development, and that the loss of a multi-annual approach will prevent effective long-term planning. To address those concerns, I would like to reaffirm commitments I have made in evidence to the Finance Committee and in this Chamber.
Firstly, any replacement funding will be invested to support regional development and to reduce inequality. It will not be subsumed into other core Welsh Government budgets. The economic action plan sets the focus for this approach, and I continue to work together with the economy Secretary on this.
Secondly, I can give an assurance that we will continue to adopt a multi-annual approach towards investing replacement funding to maintain a long-term focus on the structural challenges in our economy and labour market.
In all of this, we will draw on the significant expertise of our partners across Wales in designing and delivering a new made-in-Wales approach. Our approach to date has been collaborative and outward looking, and today I can announce two developments to strengthen this further.
Firstly, we will establish a regional investment steering group, which will draw on the wealth of knowledge and experience in our businesses, local authorities, our academic institutions, the third sector and the wider public services across Wales. The group will work closely with existing regional partnerships, including drawing on the leadership of the chief regional officers established under the economic action plan. This will ensure that our new approach aligns with wider economic development planning.
Secondly, Llywydd, I can announce this afternoon £350,000-worth of funding from the European transition fund to establish a new partnership with the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development to inform both our future regional investment approach and the implementation of the economic action plan. We may be leaving the European Union,but that makes the obligation to remain an open and connected nation all the more vital. Working with the OECD will reinforce our ability to sustain vital relationships with other European countries and regions and will ensure that international best practice is built into our future arrangements.The economy Secretary and I will announce further details of this new investment shortly.
In the meantime, Llywydd,we cannot wait for meaningful discussions on successor funding arrangements to commence with the UK Government. These may not take place, we now learn, until the 2019 spending review. We must act now to develop, in genuine partnership, a new approach that ensures investment aligns with the wider economic development interventions of this Government. The Welsh Government is strategically best positioned to administer these funds, and to achieve this outcome.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, the coming year will define our future relationship with the European Union. It will also see us develop arrangements to deliver economic growth, and challenge regional inequalities. I am grateful for the opportunity to have updated Members this afternoon, and I look forward to sharing further information on progress in future.

Darren Millar AC: Can I thank the Minister for his statement this afternoon? Although, I have to say, I find it bizarre that he's making this statement when the UK Government has already committed to consulting on the shape of the new UK shared prosperity fund in the future, and has also given a commitment to making sure that it respects the devolution settlement in terms of the way that that fund is going to be administered. I find it very strange that we have the Cabinet Secretary for Finance coming here today, telling us that he's going to spend yet more precious taxpayers' money setting up a parallel universe, as far as the distribution of regional funds is concerned, through the establishment of the regional investment steering group—yet another quango, frankly, with more jobs for the boys and girls that the crony Government that we've got wants to be able to distribute.
Let me put on record right now that I have absolutely no faith whatsoever in the ability of the Welsh Labour-led Government to distribute any funds across Wales in a fair and just manner to those parts of the country that need them. Just look at the local government settlement—just look at the local government settlement that we had last week: it's very clear that you like to distribute cash to certain places in Wales, to the detriment of others, including north Wales, mid Wales, and west Wales. In fact, what you like to do as a Government is to distribute the cash to your friends in the Labour Party, in other parts, in terms of local authorities that are run. So, I would be grateful if you could give us more clarity on what the precise costs of this body—this regional investment steering group—are going to be, and why you are jumping the gun in terms of making these statements now, when you are yet to receive any kind of consultation document from the UK Government.
We all know that the Welsh Government wants to try to crow about the success of European structural funds to date. But the reality is that they've been far from a success. In fact, we've gone backwards in terms of our relative gross value added in the UK, as a proportion of UK GVA. That's an embarrassment. The only reason that the jobless totals have been coming down in these areas is because we've got a Tory Government over the border, in London, that has been bringing the jobless total down, creating thousands of jobs each and every week since we got into power back in 2010. So, I'm very disappointed that you're jumping the gun, that you're making this statement today, that you're going to be spending yet more hard-earned cash that belongs to taxpayers in a wasteful way, setting up this parallel system, when it's absolutely likely to be completely unnecessary.
Will you accept that there has been a failure over the past two decades in terms of the way that you've invested—as a Government, taken the lead in investing these European structural funds? We know that there's been this failure to lift Wales out of poverty. We're still the poorest part of the UK as far as the figures demonstrate, in terms of the European regions within the United Kingdom. That is diabolical. It's an embarrassment. It's a shame that Wales is in this situation, but that's where we're at as a result of your Government's decisions in terms of the management of EU structural funds so far.
Can I also ask how you will ensure that the different regions within Wales have as local decision making as possible in the future? You've already heard from the UK Government that they're going to respect the devolution settlement in terms of these arrangements. But how are you going to ensure that any cash that becomes yours to distribute, under any future UK prosperity fund, is actually going to reach all parts of Wales and will deal with the poverty that there is across the country? We do know, of course, that we have a new opportunity with the UK shared prosperity fund to reach out into poorer communities that are not in west Wales and the Valleys. At the moment, we have this geographical straitjacket, which we are in as a result of EU decision making, which forces us to spend the money in certain places to the detriment of those places in east Wales.
So, I wonder whether you can tell us: is the removal of that straitjacket something that you feel that Wales can benefit from? How do you intend to make sure that those poorer communities in other parts of Wales are going to get the cash that they need in order to raise prosperity levels? And do you accept that simply having more of the same, which I think is sort of what you're proposing, is not going to work and is going to fail again in the future?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, I'll do my best to answer some of those questions. I'm afraid it wasn't the Member's finest hour—that contribution. He's completely wrong in relation to the shared prosperity fund. We couldn't possibly wait for it: we have no timetable for it, we have no details about it. I do not for a moment believe that we have received sufficient assurances that it will respect the devolution settlement. My fear remains that his Government's idea of a shared prosperity fund is to take money that comes to Wales today and to share it out to other parts of the United Kingdom. I await to see what happens, and I look forward to discussing this with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury tomorrow. 
He is quite wrong, of course, in relation to the impact of European funds here in Wales: they have allowed us to do so many things that have been to the benefit of Welsh communities. And his Government's stewardship of the UK economy, far from being the reason why jobs and economic inactivity are moving in the right direction in Wales, if you look at their record elsewhere, had we remained in the European Union, three new English regions would now have qualified for European assistance as a result of his Government's stewardship of the United Kingdom economy as a whole.
As far as the regional investment group is concerned, it will draw on those individuals in businesses, in local authorities, in those parts of the Welsh economy, which regularly Members of his party urge us to make sure that we hear their voices and act on their advice. This is far from being a parallel universe: this will be an opportunity for people beyond the Assembly, who have relevant experience and expertise, to make sure that the things that we do in the Welsh Government are informed by their direct, everyday experience of making the Welsh economy a success, and I look forward to receiving their advice.
I'll ignore, for the moment, Llywydd, the shameful remarks that the Member made about the local government settlement. He knows perfectly well—

Darren Millar AC: Cronyism.

Mark Drakeford AC: He knows perfectly well that the formula for the distribution of funds—. I hear the Member shouting at me, Llywydd, 'cronyism' and I'm keen to read that into the Record, because it is a shameful accusation that he makes and he needs to substantiate the sorts of accusations that he makes. It is absolutely not sufficient for him to sit there and smear words across the floor of the Assembly when he knows perfectly well—and we know that he knows perfectly well—that the funding formula through which funds to local authorities are distributed is not made up by the Welsh Government; it is the formula agreed—

Repeating an accusation, Darren Millar, doesn't make it true. I think you've made your point and the Minister is responding.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, it is certainly utterly bereft of truth on this occasion, because that funding formula is not a formula of the Welsh Government: it is a formula signed off every year by an expert group and then by Welsh local authorities themselves, including leaders of north Wales authorities, who were round the table in the meeting where that formula was agreed.
Let me try and rescue a small number of points from what the Member had to say. Indeed, had he been listening he would have found that they were answered already, because one of the things that we will be able to dowith funding the other side of the European Union is to make better, more flexible use of it. The geographical constraints that inevitably come with European funding will not be there to that extent in the future, and it is one of the advantages we will be able to put to work.
I agree with what he said about local decision making featuring as much as possible in the future deployment of European funds. I believe there will still be some national priorities that we will wish to set, but there will be regional working very importantly at the heart of the way we use these funds, and there will be more room for decisions to be made at a very local level, often drawing on the experience of the LEADER programme, for example, which the European Union has helped us to develop here in Wales. Far from being more of the same, Llywydd, the whole exercise is designed to learn the positive lessons from the programme so far and then to take advantage of new possibilities that we will have for regional investment, provided the money comes to Wales and the decisions are made here in Wales.

Steffan Lewis AC: I thank the Cabinet Secretary for his statement today. Can I say I find it quite amusing—that's probably not the right word—when Conservatives squawk and croak about funding formulas, when Wales has been shafted by the Barnett formula for many, many years with very little protest from the benches opposite?
Clearly, there's an agreement between Plaid Cymru and Welsh Government on the fundamental principle in terms of regional policy, that leaving the European Union should not mean that Wales is left short, either financially or in terms of responsibilities. As the Cabinet Secretary has said, Wales receives an annual amount of £370 million in European structural and investment funds and we should not lose a single penny of that money. That was the promise made by the separatists during the referendum and they should keep their promises.
It is however worth remembering that Wales qualifies for so much regional aid from the EU because of its historic economic neglect at the hands of Westminster Governments of all shades, who have never fully addressedour economic needs. They have some cheek in Westminster now if they're showing an interest in stealing powers back over regional policy, when they have repeatedly shown no interest in regional policy, not just in Wales but in deprived parts of England as well and Scotland, over decades, particularly since they intentionally deindustrialised our communities.
Llywydd, the stakes could not be higher when it comes to regional aid and the Welsh economy. It was sober reading recently to pick up the report by the Financial Inclusion Centre. In it, they list Wales as being one of the most vulnerable regions and nations in the UK to leaving the EuropeanUnion when it comes to regional policy and wider economic policy. They said, and I quote:
'In the worst case scenario, some of the most vulnerable regions'—
including Wales
—'could face a "triple whammy"...a very significant loss of potential economic output...the loss of EU funding. Third, unless fiscal transfers from stronger parts of the UK economy can be maintained at the same level to mitigate these impacts, the combined economic shock could be severe.'
Those are the words of the Financial Inclusion Centre report.
In terms of today's statement, I welcome the announcement that steps will be taken to create the infrastructure for a new Welsh regional policy post separation. I cannot however help but be concerned that all of this preparation will be done only to have the rug pulled from under its feet when the Westminster Government announced that regional policy will be centralised in London. I will be interested to know what the Cabinet Secretary makes of the comments expressed by the Prime Minister during the Tory Party conference to the media. As far as I could understand from what she was saying, she was insinuating that far from simply providing the money promised to Wales, new regional policy through the so-called shared prosperity fund would include a UK rulebook, decided in Westminster, enforced by Westminster, and spending will be decided upon in Whitehall as well. I found that very alarming. Far from being—. If we want to talk about parallel universes, talking about guaranteeing every single penny and power we have now goes completely contrary to what the Prime Minister said in statements to the media, as far as I could read in any case.
In his statement, the Cabinet Secretary says that he does not expect meaningful discussions on successor funding arrangements to take place until the 2019 spending review. Can he clarify, does he believe that there won't be any discussions about the policy itself, or does he mean how that policy would be financed? I.e. is he expecting there to be meaningful discussion on the policy,i.e. that it is devolved and shall remain devolved, and then we will have a better idea for the precise nature of the funding at around the time of the 2019 spending review? Because we need to know fairly swiftlyexactly the policy intentions of the UK Government. It's not acceptable to kick this can down the end of the road, pushing devolved Governments, as they are, into making preparations based on the best-case scenario, when I unfortunately fear that the worst-case scenario might come to pass. So, are formal discussions under way? Are more scheduled? Is there a clear timetable for deciding the shape of future regional policy as soon as possible?
Also, in terms of the wider political debate that will happen now in the UK as this becomes an issue of increasing importance, can I ask the Cabinet Secretary: what is the policy of the UK Labour Party? Are they going to be batting in the same team as the Welsh LabourGovernment here when it comes to regional policy on the Labourfront benches in Westminster? Will they vote down any attempts in the House of Commons to take regional policy powers away from Wales? What discussions has he had with party counterparts at the UK level in that respect?
Crucially to all of this, if there are discussions under way, or if discussions will take place soon, can the Cabinet Secretary make a cast-iron promise to Members here today that, in any discussions on negotiations with the UK Government, he will not give our money away in the way he gave away some of our powers the last time he struck a deal with Westminster?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, can I begin by thanking Steffan Lewis for the way he welcomed the fundamental principles that I've outlined this afternoon? I agree entirely with what he said about the way in which Wales is doubly vulnerable to the impact of particularly a hardline Brexit on our economy, and then to the potential loss of funding.
I heard the Prime Minister's comments on the shared prosperity fund. To be truthful, I thought she sounded as though she was as much in the dark about what that fund might be about as the rest of us. Her answers seemed to me more designed to cover up the fact that she wasn't quite sure what was going on than to offer us any real clarity on it.
SteffanLewis is right to say that I was making a distinction between policy matters, which we may hear something about during the rest of this calendar year, and funding arrangements, on which I think we will have to wait until the comprehensive spending review to have any clarity.
The Member asked if there are any formal discussions going on. I can tell him that I have raised our concerns previously with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury and with the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, and that this was raised again last week at the Joint Ministerial Committee on Europe by my Scottish colleague Ben Macpherson, whereI was able to, again, express the Welsh Government's disquiet at proposals for a shared prosperity fund. And it is on the agenda again tomorrow morning, when I will be in discussions with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, both on Wales-only matters and in the finance Ministers' quadrilateral.I go from that meeting to a meeting with members of Keir Starmer's team, and to discuss matters of Brexitat the House of Commons. The Member can be sure that I will be raising the shared prosperity fund there as well.
Llywydd, no powers have gone away from Wales—let us be completely clear about that. All the powers that reside in Wales as a result of the 1999 devolution settlement remain here today. The Member could not name a single power that, as he said, was given away, because none were. They all remain here in this National Assembly, and none can move from here without our prior agreement. However, I give him the assurance that he is looking for that, of course, this Welsh LabourGovernment will not agree to any proposals that result in fewer funds coming to Wales as a result of our membership of the United Kingdom than we have benefited from as a result of our membership of the European Union.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Neil Hamilton AC: Can I extend my support for the finance Secretary in much of what he says in his statement? I don't think it's at all unreasonable for him to say that it would be unacceptable for Wales to be a penny worse off as a result of the Brexitsettlement, whatever that might be, although I disagree with him saying 'aspromised during the referendum campaign'. The only people who could promise that during the referendum campaign were the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, both of whom, of course, were remainers. But I do not think it unreasonable that, as a result of Brexit, Wales should be not a penny worse off; in fact, we should better off, because for every £1 that we get back of British taxpayers' money from Brussels, we have to send out £2 in the first place. So, it's not EU money, it's British taxpayers' money, albeit funnelled back to us through the aegis of EU institutions.

Neil Hamilton AC: I would like to raise the question of the effect of the way much of this money has been spent over the years. As Darren Millar pointed out, in fact in Wales we've gone backwards in the last 20 years in terms of relative prosperity. In 1998, the average gross value added in Wales was 74.8 per cent of the UK average, and in 2016 it was 72.7 per cent, so we've actually, relatively speaking, gone backwards. And, of course, we do have two of the poorest parts of Europe within our country. The Gwent Valleys is second from bottom with an average income of £14,700-odd, 56 per cent of the UK average;Angleseyis even worse, with an average income of only £13,600-odd, 52 per cent of the UK average. We've had significant sums of money spent on regional policy over the years, but they don't seem to have done a great deal to disturb the relativities.
Therefore, I'm not sure that it's the correct approach to ring-fence this money that we will have the right to administer after Brexit, and I'm not an admirer, generally, of hypothecation of revenues, because priorities change from year to year and new needs appear, and the relativities between different needs also change. So, I think if the Welsh Government was to commit for a significant period to maintaining the importance of the regional aid budget within Wales, then it might be closing its eyes to other opportunities as to how it might spend the money in a more productive way to achieve the social objectives and economic objectives that the Government has.
The statement goes on to say towards the end that
'It will also see us develop arrangements to deliver economic growth and reduce regional inequalities.'
We can all support that objective, but there are other ways in which, perhaps, that can be achieved, and I would like the Government to be more imaginative than it has been able to be in the past.
I'm fully in sympathy with the Cabinet Secretary in wanting to get on with the job, and not waiting for the UK Government in its wisdom to hand down tablets of stone whenever it feels convenient to do so. Theresa May has given a whole new meaning to the word 'torpidity', I think, since she has been Prime Minister, and the conduct of the Brexit negotiations, if we can exalt them with that description, is proof positive of that, as she persists in her unthinking, Sisyphean relentlessness in pushing boulders to the tops of hills, only to have them rolled down back on top of her and ultimately, I believe, to flatten her. But I think it is right that the Welsh Government should take the lead and put more pressure by taking positive action to force, if they can, the UK Government to get on with taking rational decisions as to how the future for Wales might be best administered. It's a mystery to me that the UK Government cannot simply say, 'Yes, you will get your £370 million a year', because the money is there—we will be getting it back from Brussels, and the United Kingdom Government, I think, has no moral right to say that there is some doubt about this. It's creating uncertainty not just for Wales, but also an unnecessary uncertainty, I think, in the minds even of Conservative Members elsewhere in the United Kingdom. The Government cannot simply remove levels of uncertainty that could be removed without any damage whatever to the Government's overall objective, whatever that might be, in the course of the Brexit negotiations.  
One of the ways in which we could perhaps spend some of the money that is currently allocated to regional policy better is on energy prices, reducing the impact on specific industries of energy prices. We know that, for example, the steel industry, in effect, has got 85 per cent of the burden of the extra charges imposed as a result of climate change policies on its back,and without that rebate, then the steel industry in the whole of the United Kingdom would be flat on its back. So, there are unintended consequences of some policies that could be addressed as a result of considering other ways of spending this money. I can't go into it in any more detail now, but I wonder if the Cabinet Secretary, bearing in mind that we all have the same ultimate objectives here—that we share the desire for Wales to be much more prosperous than it has been in the past and, even within Wales, for inequalities to be addressed—. But that I think requires us to be as flexible as possible in funding arrangements post Brexit, when we have the levers of power in our own hands.

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank the Member for those remarks. By and large, I think he was endorsing some key aspects of the policy I set out this afternoon. I understand the point he made about the word 'promise', but when the leader of the Conservative Party in Wales says to people in Walesthat there is an absolute guarantee that Wales would not lose out by a penny, I wonder what more has to be said to make that a promise. It sounded like a promise to many people in Wales and many people in Wales voted on the basis of what they regarded as a promise.
I thank the Member for what he said about a sensible proposition that theWelsh Government should take the lead in making decisions about the way such funding should come to Wales in the future, and I share what he said—it is a mystery to me as well why a Government that has enoughquarrels on its hands, surely, and enough difficult issues to sort out, cannot make a straightforward decision that would be simple to make and simple to execute, and simply say, as people in Wales were promised, that the money that came to Wales under the European Union would come to us the other side of it.
I listened carefully to what the Member said about hypothecation, because as a finance Minister I tend to start from a point of view of being uneasy at hypothecation as well. We took a very conscious decision in the Welsh Government to say in advance that money that came to Wales today for regional economic development purposes would be retained for that purpose the other side of the EuropeanUnion. We did so because there is a real confidence issue out there in the sector, amongst people who are running projects, bringing forward plans, that the things that they have been able to rely on in the past may not be there for them in the future. The commitmentI made in today's statement, to say that that money would be retained for regional economic development purposes, and we would guaranteeit over a multi-annual period, is designed to sustain confidence in the sector that the long-term plans that they have put in place will be honouredthrough this Government.
Where I think the Member made an important point is that we will have some additional flexibilities in the way that money can be used in the future. Whether it stretches all the way to using the same money to sustain or to create lower energy prices, I probably doubt, but I do think that there will be opportunities to use that money in a way that avoids some of the rigidities of the previous set of arrangements. In that sense, we might get the benefits both of hypothecation in terms of its confidence building but also to be able to use that money more flexibly, as Neil Hamilton said in his closing remarks.

Julie Morgan AC: I welcome this very important statement and I welcome the fact that the Cabinet Secretary is setting out the principles that he sees will be used in future regional investment in Wales. I just think it's very important to set up these principles now because we've been waiting far too long to hear the details of this shared prosperity fund. And, again, I think that would be something quite simple for the Governmentin Westminster to do, to make real efforts to consult and find out exactly what's going on and end this uncertainty. I think it's very important that, as the Cabinet Secretary says, confidence is given to those people who are running projects and are making long-term plans, that they know that there is certainty from what the Government here plans to do. I'm very glad, too, that the Cabinet Secretary has pointed out the huge benefits we have had from Europeanstructural funds. Of course, we have had benefits from other European funds, such as Erasmus+ exchanges, Horizon 2020 and of course the EuropeanInvestment Bank,which has brought huge benefits to Wales. So, I'm sure that the Cabinet Secretary would comment on the benefits of those other European benefits.
Before going into other details from the statement, would he agree that it's absolutely crucial that we maximise the use of the current EU funds before we actually do leave the EU? Because those funds are still being distributed up to the point that we actually leave the EU, and they will be continuing beyond the date, well beyond the date, that we leave the EU—probably up until 2023.
I know that the Cabinet Secretary agrees that we do have the history and the expertise here in Wales. We have the expertise of having been involved in structural funds for so many years, and of course our knowledge and the way we've operated the structural funds have changed over those years, moving from a multiplicity of smaller projects tofewer, larger projects.And I think it is reallyimportant that this experience that we've got is maximised to ensure that we get the maximum benefitpost leaving the EU.So, I do welcome the steering group, and I think it's crucial that we use all the expertise that is here in Wales. I also welcome the £350,000 from the European transition fund. I think that the Cabinet Secretary is thinking creatively ahead, trying to see what we can do to minimise the damage that will be done by leaving Europe.
Finally, I would particularly welcome his commitment to multi-annual funding. I think we've all had experience of the problems of short-term funding, which so many people have suffered from—so many different projects. And that has been one of the great benefits of the European funding, that it has been multi-annual.So, I particularly welcome that commitment from the Cabinet Secretary.

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, Ithank Julie Morgan very much for those remarks. They reflect the experience that she has chairing the programme monitoring committee under the current round of European funding, where the benefits of partnership working and the ability to call on the advice of experts in the field are very much part of the way that we have done things here in Wales. And, in that sense, Julie Morgan is absolutely right that we need to maximise the lessons that we can learn from our experience so far to make sure that we go on doing things in ways that have proved successful, while taking opportunities to do things better still. I want to thank her and all those who sit on the PMC for what they are doing to make maximum use of current funding.
Here let me say, as I try to every time, that we have always welcomed the decision that the Chancellor of the Exchequer has made to guarantee those funds and the more recent announcement he has made about extending that guarantee to the very end of the current round. In the sense of what I said earlier about confidence in the sector,that has been a helpful announcement, and I'm happy to recognise that this afternoon. We will be using European funding up until 2023 under the current round, and we'll be accounting for it up until 2025, so making good use of that is really important.
And Julie Morgan is absolutely right: we cannot wait for the UK Government to move on all of this. We have pressed them time after time to make sure that we have an ongoing relationship with the European Investment Bank the other side of our membership of the European Union; we have contributed some expert advice from officials here who have real understanding of the way in which that could be brought about, and we're still waiting to hear anything about the way in which that relationship can be formed for the future.
Part of the reason why I am pleased to be able to announce today funding to draw on the advice of the OECD is that that will give us here in Wales a new set of avenues into those European union networks that Julie Morgan mentioned, so that we are able to sustain the benefits that we have had from regional working, from learning from other parts of Europe, and for making sure that the way we do things here in Wales is informed by the very best practice from elsewhere.

Jane Hutt AC: Cabinet Secretary, thank you for your statement on regional investment after Brexit, and thank you for acknowledging the work of the Finance Committee in its report, 'Preparations for replacing EU funding for Wales'—key recommendations, which, of course,will be of no surprise, leading with the priority of negotiations with the UK Government to secure the best possible funding deal to ensure Wales is not a penny worse off post Brexit, as laid out in 'Securing Wales'Future', which has stood the test of time over the past two years.
I also want to raise questions on funding prospects post Brexit in relation to the UK shared prosperity fund, particularly focusing on the frustration that we've had, both in the Finance Committee and, indeed, in the ExternalAffairs and AdditionalLegislation Committee, about the lack of engagement in shaping, as you say, an opportunity to help shape—the Welsh Government, the National Assembly—this fund. The Finance Committee did receive a letter from the Secretary of State for Wales last week that comments on our inquiry's report. In his letter, the Secretary of State refers to the UK shared prosperity fund, and he says 'weintend to consult'on this'publicly...before the end of 2018'.
Well, when the Secretary of State was invited earlier this year to attend the committee on this inquiry, he declined that invitation, saying he didn't think it necessary for him to attend in person, but telling us that this was a priority for Government and that 'theywill engage with you at the earliest opportunity'. Well, that was back in May; we're now in October with this letter drawing our intention, indeed, to a written statement on 24 July by none other than our former colleague Assembly Member Lord Nick Bourne, who made a statement on 24 July. And he did, in his statement, refer to the UK shared prosperity fund in the devolved nations, saying that the UK Government will:
'respect the devolution settlements...and will engage the devolved administrations to ensure the fund works for places across the UK.'
Unusual terminology in terms of the relations that we would—in terms of respect and negotiations between Welsh Government and UK Government. So, I would be grateful if the Finance Secretary could comment on this, comment on what has happened since that written statement was made, and how and if the Welsh Government has been involved.
Now, I have brought together women's organisations to form the Women in Wales for Europe network, and one of the major concerns raised by a diverse range of organisations has been the future impact of funding decisions post Brexit, especially in relation to the UK shared prosperity fund. There are a lot of organisations in the third, public and private sectors who want to engage in this discussion about this new fund.
Would you accept the views and recommendations of the cross-party Finance Committee that EU structural funds have had a clear focus on promoting equality, addressing poverty, supporting human rights, with a significant amount of EU-supported projects focused on supporting women?

Are you winding up, please, for a question?

Jane Hutt AC: So, we do have opportunities and challenges, and I hope that you will be able to make the case for us all to be engaged, because, as you said, there is an emerging consensus, and this Assembly can back you in these negotiations.

Mark Drakeford AC: I thankJane Hutt for what she said, particularly that last remark; it is very helpful, always, when you are discussing things with UK Ministers, to be able to refer not simply to the views of the Welsh Government, but, for example, to the Finance Committee's report, which I've read. I thought it was characteristically well informed and constructive in its conclusions. And being able to refer to that report and the cross-party consensus that it has established in relation to these matters is always helpful when you are discussing these matters with UK Ministers.
It is a shame that the Secretary of State for Wales, once again, declines invitations to come and defend his Government's policies in front of this Assembly. I hear, Dirprwy Lywydd, that the UK Government has held a consultation event in Scotland on the shared prosperity fund, and that it has held a consultation event in Northern Ireland on the shared prosperity fund. I hear that it did not inform either the Northern Ireland—well, the devolved arrangements there—until the day before that consultation took place, and that the Scottish Government was not informed of the consultation exercise until the day before that happened either. What sort of UK Government is this,Dirprwy Lywydd, that moves around theUnited Kingdom like some sort of thief in the night, refusing to tell devolved administrations of its presence in their localities? Maybe we will see them here in Wales, and, if we do, I look forwardto hearing of their arrival from the same Secretary of State.
Finally, just to agree with what Jane Hutt said about equality, equality matters have been a key strand in European funding here in Wales and in the work of the programme monitoring committee. Many organisations of the sort that Jane Huttreferred to have benefited from it. What guarantees could we possibly have that that focus would be sustained in any shared prosperity fund decidedupon elsewhere, the rules set elsewhere, the funding decisions made elsewhere, and, here in Wales, simply left to deal with the consequences?

Finally, Mick Antoniw.

Mick Antoniw AC: Cabinet Secretary, I always get disappointed when I hear the Tories dissing the way in which some of the European funding has actually been used to regenerate parts of Wales. If they want to come to Pontypridd, they can see what I think is a model example of the way a town that suffered so grimly out of the mining industry and the industrialisation—the regeneration that is actually taking place, where European funding has been such a fundamentally important catalyst. You can see it— whether it be the Taff precinct, the pedestrianisation, the lido, the Church Village bypass, the station. Pontypriddand parts of TaffEly—and of course the metro extending all the way to Taff'sWell—are a hub of regeneration at the moment. There is a buzz in the town, and, without that European funding, that would not have happened. So, it's very disappointing to hear those examples being totally rejected by the Conservatives.
The shared prosperity fund has already been commented on in detail. There were promises, just like there were promises that we wouldn't lose any money—promises of engagement. SteffanLewisreferred very clearly to some of the promises, statements being made about centralisation, and it is very clear that there isn't proper engagement; no-one knows what the shared prosperity fund actually is. And, when you read Western Mail today and you see an article in there—and you hear Darren Millar, who was shouting so loudly earlier—saying, 'Darren Millar looked forward to a new development funding system once the UK has left the EU', 'Brexit provides Wales with an opportunity for a fresh approach to regional investment and economic development through a new UK shared prosperity fund', which he isn't able to describe or to identify either, there's only one conclusion, Deputy Presiding Officer, that you can come to. And maybe the name 'Tory' is very appropriate in these examples, because it has its roots in the Irish language and means 'robber'. Because the only conclusion I can come to is that there is a Tory conspiracy to rob Wales of £370 million a year—rob Wales of £370 million a year. Because not once have you heard the Tories stand up and say, 'Yes, we will demand that Wales gets every penny that it had before.' Not once have they dared to stand up and do that, and that is because they are basically a London Tory party fifth column in Wales. That's the role they play.
And do you agree with me, Cabinet Secretary, that the Tory party in Wales now only represents one thing and that is economic betrayal—betrayal over the promises over electrification, betrayal over the Swansea tidal lagoon, and now a total betrayal over EUfunding?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, I thank the Member for that and thank him for reminding us that the reason why Wales has qualified for European funds over these years is because we have had to deal with the consequences of the Conservative Party's handling of the Welsh economy during the 1980s—their shameful record of de-industrialisation, their shameful record of an assault on the manufacturing industry. Of course they don't know the benefits that European funding has brought because they never go there—they never go to those parts of Wales where their policies laid such waste and where economies and communities are still having to recover from the way in which they discharged their responsibilities, and, indeed, the policies that they continue to pursue here today, the policies of austerity on the one hand and their refusal to live up to the guarantee that was offered to people in Wales that we would not lose a penny from European funding.
The shared prosperity fund, DirprwyLywydd, it's a unicorn fund, isn't it? Everybody has heard of it, nobody has ever seen it, and we certainly don't want to see it here in Wales.

Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary.

6. Statement by the Leader of the House and Chief Whip: Broadband Update

Item 6 on the agenda is postponed until 23 October.

7. Statement by the Leader of the House and Chief Whip: Action on Disability: The Right to Independent Living

Therefore, we move to item 7, a statement bythe leader of the house, 'Action on Disability: The Right to Independent Living', and I call on the leader of the house, Julie James.

Julie James AC: The Welsh Government is committed to helping disabled people to fulfil their potential and achieve their ambitions and dreams. This is no easy task, because it requires us to work hard to remove barriers that get in the way of such ambitions. This includes physical obstacles, whether in buildings, towns or countryside, but also includes hurdles and blockages created by organisations and people’s attitudes. Disabled people tell us, time and time again, that these are the barriers that most frustrate them and stop them living the lives they want, more than any limitations of their own bodies.
The 2017-18 national survey for Wales data demonstrates that life satisfaction was generally lower for people with a disability or limiting, long-standing illness than for those without. The mean score for those without a disability is eight out of 10, but only 7.2 for disabled people. Tackling these challenges requires real partnership working. In particular, we know we will make more progress and achieve better results if we work with disabled people, so we understand the issues properly and find solutions that work.
Next week, we will be publishing our framework and action plan entitled 'Action on Disability: The Right to Independent Living'. This document replaces our previous framework for action on independent living, which was published by the Welsh Government in 2013. The new framework has been developed as a result of a great deal of engagement over nearly two years with disabled people and the organisations that represent them. The work has been undertaken in workshops up and down Wales by small groups of people with expertise and experience of a wide range of disabilities, through hundreds of e-mails, letters and phone calls and through conversations in homes, workplaces, schools and communities.
Our new framework sets out how we are fulfilling our obligations under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. It also highlights the role of key legislation, including the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, and the Welsh Government’s national strategy, 'Prosperity for All'. Underlying the whole framework is the social model of disability, the approach that recognises the need for society to be transformed, removing barriers so that disabled people are able to participate fully.
The new framework focuses on key issues identified by disabled people, and Welsh Government’s own priorities. Often these are one and the same, for example, the need to help disabled people who are unemployed and want to work to find jobs. Seventy-five thousand disabled people in Wales are either actively seeking work or would like to work. Too often, they are being held back by barriers beyond their control, such as organisational systems and other people’s attitudes, as well as physical and environmental barriers. Just 45 per cent of working-age disabled people in Wales are currently in employment, compared to 80 per cent of those not disabled. This is a shocking disability employment gap of 35 percentage points. To address this, the Welsh Government is working in close partnership with a wide range of stakeholders, disabled people and their representative bodies, to better understand existing barriers to employment and, crucially, the actions needed to deliver real change. Many of the commitments set out in our employability plan are aimed at tackling this disability employment gap.We will work with partners to address the issues, including employer attitudes, job design and working practices.We will publish a target on employment and disability by the end of the year, to underline our commitment to this agenda.
Having focused for a few minutes on employment, let me also acknowledge this is not the only or even the main issue for every disabled person. We know action is needed across a wide front, and the new action plan will reflect this. Whatever the issues being discussed, disabled people have told us that local action is crucial, so our new framework is designed to strongly encourage Welsh public services, employers and organisations at every level to take note of the commitments set out in the framework, and emulate them as far as possible.
When it is published next week, you will see that the structure of the framework is new, with the main document setting out the principles, legal context and commitments that underpin all our work with and for disabled people. This is accompanied by an action plan, which highlights the main actions currently being undertaken or led by Welsh Government. The framework will be available in a variety of accessible versions.
I want to thank everyone who has helped in this process, and especially the steering group who have overseen it, led by Disability Wales. I would also like to thank, in particular, the children and young people who have contributed to the making of the framework. They have helped to ensure that our approach is the right one for all ages, and fit for the future. Supporting people to live their lives in the way that they choose is the right thing to do. I commend this framework to encourage action with and for disabled people across the whole of Wales. Diolch.

Mark Isherwood AC: Thank you for your statement. You state that the new framework and plan, 'Action on Disability: The Right to Independent Living'replaces the framework for action on independent living. Of course, the framework for action on independent living is specifically named in the Part 2 code of practice for the Social Services andWell-being (Wales) Act 2014. Can you confirm that you will be, therefore, updating your codes and regulations to reflect the change?

Mark Isherwood AC: In terms of roll-out, how will you ensure that this is better understood by public sector bodies and commissioners? I'll give one example. Last year, I had a haemophiliac constituent, a young man who was offered a job by Flintshire council. The job offer was subsequently withdrawn on the advice of the council's occupational physician, as they termed the person, although the constituent and his family said that that clinician had low or little knowledge of haemophilia, and the constituent and his family had documentation from his own expert clinicians showing he was perfectly able to do the job. However, the council dug in and initially rejected the relevance of the framework for action on independent living in this context, despite my referring to it in correspondence with them.
You refer to 75,000 disabled people actively seeking work, and, clearly, I fully acknowledge that. Almost every disabled person I meet, work with or have as a friend, if they're not in work already—and too few, sadly, are—they want to be. They want a job, they want their own front door, they want their independence. In taking this forward and tackling the barriers beyond their control that you referred to, how will you ensure that you don't replicate or duplicate the parallel work that's already going on, for example, with the Department for Work and Pensions community partner teams recruited from people outside government, outside the civil service, who have personal lived experience of disability, but only initially on a 12-month contract. I hope you might consider joining myself and the cross-party autism group, following recent evidence from them, to urge the UK Government to extend that beyond 12 months so that the work coaches and others can have a better understanding of the barriers that disabled people encounter.
How will you engage, or are you engaging, with Remploy Wales's work and health programme from the UK Government, which, although it's only compulsory for those unemployed for more than two years, has found that over 80 per cent of the people on the programme are disabled people with long-term health conditions who have voluntarily joined that programme because they wish to access work? Equally, how will you support initiatives such as the Wrexham enterprise hub, who have scheduled an autism future employment event on 25 January next year? I'm sure that you would have an interest in that, and would be grateful if you could confirm how you might wish to engage in working with Hafal, who's also involved, and Glyndwr University.
How do you respond to the concern expressed in the Joseph Rowntree Foundation report 'Poverty in Wales 2018' that says, regarding employment, disabled people make up just 5 per cent of the Welsh Government's own workforce, despite comprising 22 per cent of the population, given the wider figures you illustrate, and similarly address the concern they raise that
'In Wales, 39% of disabled people are in poverty compared to 22% of non-disabledpeople',
again, almost always because of those social model barriers that you referred to in your own statement?
Will you reconsider the Welsh Government's approach to the scrapping of the Welsh independent living grant? There is still widespread concern amongst recipients or former recipients of that grant that the lack of ring fence, the requirement to agree with local authorities what's good for them, or what their needs might be, is a removal of their independence. Look to what happened in Scotland and Northern Ireland, where the Governments there, politically miles apart from myself, did the right thing and established an independent body run by Disability Wales's equivalent organisation there. Now, I'm not going to name them, because you heard me last week and last month repeatedly quote new third sector schemes that learned that they have lost their funding, or will be losing their funding, when they're delivering independent living, early prevention programmes enabling people to have control of their own lives, taking pressure off statutory services who've lost their funding, because, invariably, statutory commissioners have decided they're not the priority they should be, and therefore because of dumb commissioning, dumb budgeting, they're piling millions of avoidable additional costs onto statutory services. You did, last week, comment or respond regarding that, but I would be grateful if you could just slip in a line, so that those people affected by this can, hopefully, hear some further assurances.
Now, it's five and half years—

Are you winding up, please? Wind up, please.

Mark Isherwood AC: Okay. I was just goingto conclude, therefore, by asking you to work with the Assembly Commission to recognise andaddress barriers to independent living for disabled people identified by, for example, the disabled people seeking to access and attend the Cross-Party Group on Disability,the Cross-Party Group on Neurological Conditions, tomorrow's joint meeting—disability, older people and housing and otherwise, who are finding it—. Well, my staff are finding it next to impossible to get the Commission to provide identified disabled parking spaces for people to remove the barriers to their attending this building, and similar ongoing concernsregarding the ramps outside.
And finally, will you help—and I'll give one example—Flintshire, because I've gotsome cases I haven't referred to you previously—how to help them better understand what all this means. I'll give you two very quick examples and I'll finish. One: I had a meeting with the chief officer of Flintshire disability forum centre for independent iiving and officers in the councilregarding the inability of wheelchair users to access the coastal path. We were told that they would tell us what size wheelchairs we should tell people to have. I suspect that you might recognisethat is a gross breach, not only of the social model, but of the Equality Act 2010 and Welsh legislation.
And finally, in this context, a group of autistic adults and children I've been working with for years have been seeking a round-table meeting with Flintshireat a senior level, multidisciplinary, now for over seven months, over 150 days, to discuss the social, psychological and health barriers they're encountering.Because of procrastination,delay and cancellation, that meeting's still not occurred. But we took it up with the chief executive. He blamed the autistic people, who are suffering heightened anxiety, who are suffering meltdown, who are contacting me telling me of their suicidal thoughts because of the crisis they've been pushed into by a failure of a local authority hostingthe integrated autism service, who fails to understand what the communication and social needs of autistic people are, and is, therefore, drivinga situation in which its own officers are having to cope with situations that the chief executive then uses as an excuse not to meet the people who have the answers.

Julie James AC: That was a very extensive range of issues raised there. I'll do my best to address most of them. In terms of the prosaic issue around updating the regulations and so on, obviously, we'll be looking to make sure thatall the regulations that are required to be updated will be updated once the framework is in place, and the consultations are complete. And I'll just take that opportunity to say that we're very anxious that this completely reflects the views of disabled people and theirrepresentative organisations. And,as I said in the statement, we've had contact with a lot of individuals as well as representative organisations, and we want to encourage that to happen. We'll be making sure that we do roll it out. If the Member does have anything specific he'd like us to address in terms of roll-out and information, I'mmore than happy to discuss that with him. All ideas are welcome, to make sure that it has as wide a dissemination as possible.
In termsof working with the DWP, we've workedvery closelywith them. My colleague the Minister for Welsh Language and Lifelong Learning, in her employability plan, has been workingextremely hard to make sure that, under the title, 'Working Wales', all of the programmes available come together. The idea is to—forgive the analogy, Deputy Presiding Officer—hide the pipework, so that when people present for help, it's not their issue whether they've presented inthe right place or on the right stream, but are actually assisted by everyone who's helping under the title, and that includes across UK Government agencies as well, toget them onto the right course, in the right place, at the right time, and that includes having the disability support.
He identified a number of individual issues that I'mmore than happy to meet with him to discuss outside. And if there is anything I can do to ensure that meetings take place, I'm happy to do that alongside my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for public services. If we can assist on that specific issue, I'm more than happy to do it.
But I think, really, fundamentally, he's agreeing with me that what we're trying to do here is make sure that each individual disabled human being is regarded as unique and a person in their own right, and has the barriers that prevent them from taking part in society removed and that we don't perceive it as something that they need to do in order to access things. So, I'm very happy to discuss with him the issue that he raised around asking people to buy the right-sized wheelchairs, because that very definitely is not the model that I would like to see being rolled out.
So, when the action plan comes out, the Member will be able to see that we have a large range of issues around that. We'll be incorporating it into our various instructions to local authorities and other public service bodies around the way that they do commissioning and so on, but more importantly we will be looking to them and to ourselves as a Welsh Government—and I'm more than happy to take up the issue with the commissioner as the Member suggests—to be exemplar employers in this regard. I think we should be re-looking at our own targets and being world class in that. At the moment, I'm not happy that our targets are as stretching as they could be and we'll be looking to the public sector in Wales to lead the way to show other employers, in particular in Wales, as the Member is quite right: unless they have really severe life-limiting issues, everyone I meet also wants to work and be as independent as possible. So, we'll be looking to roll that framework out in that regard.

Siân Gwenllian AC: Thank you for the statement on this important issue on action on disability and the right to independent living. It’s an important topic, but with all due respect, the statement itself doesn't enlighten us a great deal. What we have is a statement telling us that there’s an announcement to be made. Next week, the Government will publish its new framework and action plan—that’s what this statement tells us, basically. Now, I have no idea what the content of that framework will be, I have no idea what the response of disabled people will be to it, or the response of the charities and groups representing disabled people. So, my first question is: wouldn't it have been better to have made the statement after you'd published the new framework, so that we'd have something to consider, something to discuss, something to respond to, and something that we could weigh up?
In the absence of anything for the opposition parties to scrutinise, I'm going to ask you about something that is important to disabled people but isn't contained within the statement, namely the Welsh independent living grant. Mark Isherwood has already mentioned this. I want to approach it from a slightly different angle. As you know, it's a policy of your party to retain this grant and not to allow disabled people to be supported from general budgets within councils. Your conference very wisely adopted that policy. So, can I ask you this? In the absence of anything of substance in your statement today, can I ask a second question—and my final question—namely: when will the Welsh Government under the leadership of the LabourParty adopt the LabourParty’s policy and announce that the independent living grant will remain and won't be disappearing by 2020?

Julie James AC: I recognise Siân Gwenllian's first point. The timing is always a problem. I very much, though, wanted to highlight the launch, give it as much publicity as possible and encourage as much response as possible. I will, Deputy Presiding Officer, once we've got the consultation responses in, be coming back to the Chamber to give another statement to make sure that people can scrutinise the substance of it as well. I think that's a fair point. It's always very difficult to know whether it's better to go afterwards or beforehand, but I very much wanted to emphasise(a) the role of disabled people and their representatives across Wales have had in putting together the framework on which we're about to consult, and then the opportunity for further consultation. We absolutely want to get this to be as good as it possibly can be for the disabled peoplethemselves. So, I take her point. I think it's a point well made, but it was a judgment call really to highlight the framework before we launch it to make sure that Members are aware and expecting it, and then I absolutelyundertake to come back with the substance of it once we've had the consultation. I think that's a fair point.
In terms of the independent living grant, my colleague the Minister behind me has just very kindly passed me a note that tells me—as I explained to SiânGwenllian when I was answering questions on my own portfolio, last week I think that was, I have an overview across the piece for Welsh Government and an influencing role with colleagues, but quite a lot of the detail of this is actually in different portfolios. So, that particular grant is actually in my colleague Minister's portfolio. But I'm told that thetransition is proceeding well—we're very closely monitoring it. They're independently carrying out an evaluation of people's experience—we're doing it under the social model, so,'Whatmatters to me'. We've had this conversation between us quite a lot. It's very much around making sure that what we go forward with matters, works and is what people actually want. Our experience with people who transition is that it's been very good indeed, in answer to your question, but I do take your original point and I will undertake to come back with the substance.

Mike Hedges AC: Can I first of all welcome the Welsh Government's statement? I'm sure no-one would disagree with the Welsh Government's commitment to help disabled people to fulfil their potential and achieve their ambitions and dreams—everybody should be able to do that. I agree that this is no easy task, because it requires us to work hard to remove barriers that get in the way of such ambitions.
As the Cabinet Secretary said, there are 75,000 disabled people in Wales who are actively seeking work or would like to work. That's almost 2,000 per constituency. Can I declare an interest? My sister, who is one of your constituents, is actually one of them.
Does the Cabinet Secretary agree that unless we have quotas or a financial incentive, then employers and personnel departments will not change their attitudes? We're going to have to either incentivise them or do something to them. It's pointless saying, 'We want you to employ more disabled people'—we've said that for decades, and they haven't. So, I think we need to do something much more active than we have.
Can I just talk about transport? We have a series of simple actions that could make life easier for those with disabilities to travel, such as public transport announcing stops and the removal of pavement clutter to help those with sight loss; public transport showing the next stop to help those with hearing loss; wheelchair access to public transport; road crossovers; and more than one wheelchair user being able to use a bus at any one time. These are not asking a lot, but they would make huge differences to the lives of a lot of people who suffer with disabilities.
On the independent living grant, I belong to that large number of people, including in our party, who are disappointed that it ended. What I will ask is—. I don't think it's going to be coming back, so I'm not going to ask whether you'll bring it back, because I think the answer is going to be 'no', but can I ask that the Cabinet Secretary, whichever one it happens to be, asks that local authorities report their spending in that area? So, although it's not a specific grant, it'll get reported back how much each local authority spends on it, and that'll be reported in such a way that it becomes available to all of us. So, if our local authority is spending less than they did previously, I think many of us would want to take it up with them.

Julie James AC: The Minister's hearing very clearly, I think, the message, and I think that that last point there was very well made. Yes, absolutely, in terms of the public transport points, I also think they were very well made, Mike Hedges. We've had many discussions between us about various bus services in your constituency that cross into mine, and I couldn't agree more around the announcements, the visual aids and accessibility. I've had several helpful conversations with my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport along those lines. We will be looking to make sure that the framework takes those into account.
In terms of the active encouragement to employers, I had the great privilege to speak at the Disability Confident conference in his own constituency a couple of weeks ago. That was exactly that—we were talking around what we could do to incentiviseemployers. The UK Government's target of 1 million people across the UK is about 55,000 for Wales. We want to work very closely with them to get that up to the 70,000 that he identified, ensuring that Welsh money and UK Government money dovetail together to give people the best incentive, and that will be looking to see what incentivisesemployers, in terms of changing their attitudes. Often, it is attitudinal—it's not really a physical barrier. The conference highlighted that with a number of issues that employers there were very surprised to find were easily available and inexpensive.
I am looking as well at a scheme that many disability charities and our own Disability Wales people have asked me to look into, which is a sort of scores-on-the-doors system that shows accessibility for particular businesses. There's no reason that we couldn't extend that to employers as well.

Helen Mary Jones AC: I'm very grateful to you, leader of the house, for your response to Siân Gwenllian's question, because I was about to raise the same point, that it is a bit difficult to have a sensible discussion about a framework that one hasn't yet read, but I also take your point that you wish to highlight the fact that the consultation has begun, and I very much welcome your commitment to, at the end of the consultation, bringing your proposals back to this Chamber, so that we can discuss them in some detail.
I have one particular question in this context. I very much welcome what you said about reinforcing the Assembly and the Welsh Government's commitment to the social model of disability, which is incredibly important. Your statement refers to the UN convention and refers to other legislation. Would you agree with me, leader of the house—and it refers, in a sense, to some of the points that Mike Hedges has made—that there must be some legal redress for disabled people in Wales when their rights under the new framework are not met? Would you agree with me—and I think everybody in this Chamber would probably agree—that the Equality Act 2010 is not proving a very effective mechanism for disabled people to use when they feel as individuals that their rights are not being met? So, will you agree to give, in the context of the discussions around the new framework, further consideration to the matter we debated last week when we considered the potential of embedding into Welsh law the UN convention, which might then give disabled people rights under Welsh law to seek redress if their needs under the framework were not being met, either by service providers or potentially also by employers?

Julie James AC: Yes. Helen Mary Jones makes a lot of very good points there, and as I said in our debate on her legislative proposal, I'm very keen to see how the framework legislation currently fits together, what incorporating the convention directly may or may not do to that, and to work out a system that gives people the maximum benefit of all of that legislation in terms of their rights, and their ability to actually get the services and access that they want. So, I'm very much looking forward to our discussion about that.
I'm very keen, Deputy Presiding Officer, to make sure that instead of layering things on top of each other, we actually make them into a seamless whole, so that people have an open and transparent, easily accessible and usable system that actually does make their lives better, which is what we're after here, and particularlyemphasises to those people currently putting barriers in the way that that's not an acceptable mode of behaviour here in Wales.

Jane Hutt AC: Thank you for the statement on the framework for independent living, which very much, of course, is one of my key political priorities and experience. I'm glad to contribute to this statement as a trustee of Vale People First, having seen the transformation of the lives of people with learning disabilities over the past 40 years, since the inquiry into Ely hospital led to a pioneering strategy for the closure of long-stay hospitals to community living. As a former south Glamorgan county councillor, I chaired Nimrod to see the transformation of the resettlement from Ely hospital. Featured recently in the Senedd was an exhibition of the first Cardiff University social services home, established in Cathays.
One of the first actions I took as health and social services Minister was to fund and accelerate the closure of long-stay hospitals in Wales. I think Dai Lloyd, David Melding and others in the Chamber meant that there was very much cross-party support for that. But I was also the Minister in 2013 receiving a petition, and that's where the Petitions Committee came into play. A petitioner from Disability Wales was calling for a framework for action for independent living. What was key was that we set up a strategic cross-Welsh Government panel led by a senior civil servant. We secured commitment across the Government to fulfil the social model of disability, and it's interesting that you've actually got two Ministers here behind you who were all key to actually delivering your framework, because unless you can break down the silos and get that cross-Government action, you won't have a framework for independent living.
I also, like Helen Mary, want to know how you see this as a way of delivering the social model of disability, which, actually, we embraced in the first session of this Assembly. How can you drive that cross-Government policy to embed the framework in policy and legislation? And do you welcome the role of organisations like Vale People First being replicated across Wales, which leads on the rights and empowerment of people with learning disabilities?

Julie James AC: Yes. Starting with that last matter first, I very much welcome them, and one of the reasons I wanted to bring this statement forward was to encourage groups like Vale People First to come forward with anything that they think we've left out, or we can enhance, or we could add to the framework when it comes out. Of course, we have alreadyextensively consulted—we wanted to have it as good as it could be before we went out to consultation, so it won't be a surprise to organisations. Nevertheless, we want them to comment back to us and I very much welcome the comments back of all of the elected Members who have much experience on this matter. Jane Hutt, you're very much one of those, in terms of what you think the framework could add or how it could fit together. And as I said in response to Helen Mary Jones, I'm very keen to make sure that we have a transparent and open pathway for all of the elements of somebody's life that need to come together here, so that it's very clear to employers, members of civic society, businesses, and people themselves what this framework requires of them and what they need to do to comply with it, and, you know, what the carrots and sticks associated with compliance or otherwise are. I've worked very closely with a range of Ministers, who are actually behind me at the moment, but other Ministers as well, and we've mentioned today public services—public transport, for example—to make sure that we that we have a cross-Government framework, following in your footsteps, I must say, to make sure that this isn't siloed, that it does take into account action right across.
If I could just, Deputy Presiding Officer, make one point here—. So, for example, the Equality Act 2010—there's an issue about whether we incorporate the UN conventionor we bring bits of it into force straight away or we change the wording slightly to make it mesh better together. I want to have a proper conversationto ensure that what we get out of that is really fit for purpose into the future, rather than just doing it piecemeal. I'm very interested in that conversation going forward and I very much hope that the framework, when you see it, and the action plan in particular that goes with it, sets out that as a pathway.

Finally, Caroline Jones.

Caroline Jones AC: Diolch, DirprwyLywydd. Thank you for your statement, leader of the house. I welcome your Government's updated framework for action on independent living. Independent living is something we all take for granted, but for a person with disabilities there are so many barriers that make independent living almost impossible for many. My neighbour, for example, travels 15 minutes in his wheelchair to catch a bus so that he can meet his friends and live as independently as he wishes. But very often there is insufficient room on the bus to take him, so he waits in all weathers for another bus to come along; he waits hopefully that this will happen. So, this desperately needs addressing.
The previous framework, although far from perfect, was widely welcomed, as it outlined the actions needed to remove many of the barriers facing disabled people in Wales. Unfortunately, it has failed to make major improvements in many areas, as highlighted.
The proportion of disabled people living in poverty in Wales has risen by over 40 per cent in recent years. Around two fifths of Wales’s disabled people now live in income poverty. Whilst some of this increase can be attributed to the ill-conceived welfare reform policies of the UK Government, according to the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, this is not the main cause for the increasing poverty in Wales. They point to the growing employment gap between disabled and non-disabled people.
The Cabinet Secretary called the poverty statistics a national disgrace, and unless we take positive action to address the barriers it will be a matter of national shame. I look forward to reading the specific actions your Government will take to address some of these barriers, leader of the house, however I would be grateful if you would outline the actions you are taking to address the impact of the UK Government’s welfare reforms.
I welcome the news that the roll-out of universal credit has been delayed once again. Hopefully, the UK Government will rethink this scheme. It may have been introduced with the best intentions but it has left many people destitute. Leader of the house, will you be making representations to the UK Government to ensure that universal credit is not rolled out in Wales until it can be guaranteed that disabled people will not be worse off?
Leader of the house, barrier-free transport has a key role to play in providing not only independence but a route out of poverty and the examples that I have highlighted of disabled people being refused taxis or charged extra because they require an accessible vehicle. So, what can the Welsh Government do to ensure that local authorities stamp out this immoral and illegal practice?
Finally, leader of thehouse, the Equality and Human Rights Commission highlighted the chronic shortage of accessible housing in Wales, calling it Wales's hidden crisis. So, can you outline the actions you are taking to increase the availability of accessible housing in Wales?
Thank you once again for your statement, and I look forward to scrutinising the details of the updated framework and action plan.

Julie James AC: Thank you very much, Caroline Jones, for those remarks. I'll try and cover off all of them. I've had conversations with various colleagues—the Minister forhousing in the last instance, for example,my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport, and my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Local Government andPublic Services—around some of the issues that you raise. Some of them are within our control, others not so much. We'd very much welcome, for example, the ability to regulate some of thebus services, which would allow us to specify specific spaces for wheelchair users in particular, but actually other issues that Mike Hedges also highlighted around visual and aural aids to assist somebody to be independent.I don't know ifthe Member or any of the other Assembly Members present have been with one of our many disability charities and been put in the same position as a person with sensory deprivation and then walked through a familiar place; then you soon get a very good idea of some of the physical barriers. But there are also, as the Member points out, a large number of attitudinal and organisational barriers. So, the plan will also be addressing misconceptions around what people can and can't do and also some unintended consequences.
And if I could finish, DirprwyLywydd, with thisexample that was given to me by one of the young people that I was talking to at the conference that I attended with Leonard Cheshire andDelsion, a Disability Confident employer conference.A local employer had been extremely encouraging and had said a lot of the right things about wanting to employ people with disabilities and particular impairments and so on, but at the same time had increased the flexibility requirements of all of their entry-grade jobs, so that in order to be employed there, you now had to be able to do all of the tasks across every entry grade. And that meant that people with specifically good ability in one area, but who perhaps couldn't do everything, would not be able to access that,and the employer had to have that pointed out to them before they realised that that would have that effect. It wasn't intended, and in fact they hadn't even seen that it was happening. Once pointed out, however, they embraced the idea and were very happy to look again to see whether that, what seemed to them, standard employment practice was actually having an unintended consequence. And that's the kind of conversation we are looking to have across Wales to make sure that, when people look at their HR strategies and their specific job descriptions and so on, they actually think about it from the point of view of somebody who might have a disability, if they've just put something in that job description that would effectively bar a person who would do that job extremely well and be a real benefit to their company.
So, I think that anecdote from that young person and the actually quite happy outcome where the employer recognised the issue demonstrate perfectly why the framework is needed and why we need to disseminate it as widely as possible. I'd be very grateful, Deputy Presiding Officer, if Assembly Members could use all of their networks to make sure that we get as many responses as possible to our consultation. Diolch.

Diolch.

8. Statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Local Government and Public Services: The Valleys Regional Park

The next item is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Local Government and Public Services: the Valleys Regional Park. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Alun Davies.

Alun Davies AC: Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer, for this opportunity to update Members about the progress we are making in creating aValleys regional park.
Deputy Presiding Officer, all of us who were born and brought up in the south Wales Valleys understand the history of the landscape. We also recognise the importance of the place in terms of our national story. The communities in the Valleys of south Waleshave always had a special connection to the landscape. It was this landscape that gave birth to our communities and people, and it is to recreate and deepen and grow that connection between people, community and landscape and place that the Valleys regional park seeks to achieve, in order to enable others to understand and enjoy that same connection.
The Valleys are home to some of the most distinctive and breathtaking natural landscapes in Wales and the United Kingdom, but for too long their potential to attract visitors and to be used fully and recognised by the communities themselves has been overlooked and undervalued. We are rightly proudof our rich and unique industrial heritage. It was south Wales after all that powered the industrial revolution,but we have tended to view the Valleys as a single homogenous community, through the prism of the coal dust thrown up by the pits and the unemployment left in the wake of their closure.

Alun Davies AC: Deputy Presiding Officer, nothing could be further from the truth.Over the course of the last 50 years, the Valleys’ landscapes have undergone a remarkable transformation, probably more than we have witnessed anywhere else in Wales, the UK or beyond.The challenge for us today, in twenty-first century Wales and in twenty-first century post-industrial Valleys communities, is how we make the most of our landscapes and our heritage, reconnecting us with our environment and our history.How can we use these rich landscapes to help address existing issues in our communities, including some of the deep-seated health and socioeconomic problems and to address some new and emerging challenges, such as the creation of a prosperous and resilient, inclusive economy to improve the well-being of communities and reduce the environmental threats associated with climate change, water management and biodiversity?
Since the ministerial taskforce for the south Wales Valleys was set up, we have worked closely with people living and working in the Valleys to find out what they want for their communities and what they value about where they live. Our conversations revealed a strong feeling that the Valleys’ natural and cultural heritage should provide the backdrop to a new future for the Valleys.The taskforce has spent much of the last year developing an exciting, dynamic approach that will co-ordinate, drive and promote activities related to the environment, the people and the economy of the Valleys.
This was originally captured in the concept of a landscape park, but the range of opportunities we now have available to us is much broader, hence the focus on a wider Valleys regional park.Our aim is to put the Valleys in the vanguard globally, with a national and international profile that will serve the needs of future generations.Based on previous experience, emerging and existing best-practice research and extensive engagement, the Valleys regional park will have three interlinked delivery themes: landscape, culture and identity; recreation and well-being; and communities and enterprise.
We will build on what we already have in terms of our assets, delivering ambitious plans that will connect the Valleys with high-quality walking trails and cycle routes. We will develop a highly visible, high-quality network of uplands, woodlands, nature reserves and country parks, rivers, reservoirs and canals, heritage sites and attractions, crucially connected with our towns and villages. And we will invest in and develop existing sites across the Valleys as gateways to better tell the stories of the Valleys. These will encourage people to discover our towns and villages and encourage wider exploration of what the Valleys have to offer.
Deputy Presiding Officer, Members will be aware that earlier this month the Cabinet Secretary for Finance announced £7 million of capital funding over two years to establish the Valleys regional park in the draft budget. This funding will be used to develop the park, including investing in the gateways.We will work closely with local authorities and other partners in the Valleys as we progress the regional park. I intend to announce the location of the gateways by the end of this year and deliver phase 1 by spring 2019.
The park should and must support outdoor activities in the Valleys, not only for leisure and tourism, but to help address the increasing issues we face with respect to physical and mental health and well-being.We will build on the inspiring, innovative projects and initiatives already being undertaken and developed by communities across the Valleys, involving more communities and creating a peer-to-peer, skill-sharing network.
Today I have published a prospectus for the Valleys regional park as a guide to our intention and to outline our vision, but it is also an invitation for everybody in the Valleys and beyond to be a part of this initiative.The prospectus builds on experience over the past 20 years and more. It reflects worldwide best practice and it is a statement of ambition about what we believe we can achieve.
Deputy Presiding Officer, the Valleys regional park is not and will not be a one-off project or initiative. It is at the very heart of our ambition to enable our communities across the valleys of south Wales to maximise the opportunities afforded by our natural and cultural heritage to deliver significant social, economic and environmental benefits today and into the future. Thank you.

Mark Isherwood AC: Well, as you say, you were born and brought up in the south Wales Valleys and understand the history and beauty of the landscape. Clearly, I wasn't born and brought up in the south Wales Valleys, but I can assure you I fully appreciate the history of the area and love the beauty of that landscape, and, of course, the tremendous people who live within it.
You say you've worked closely with people living and working in the Valleys. You referred to a large number of meetings and conversations. You referred to the Valleys' natural and cultural heritage as something that should provide the backdrop to a new future for the area. But, in the spirit of co-production, in the spirit of Welsh legislation inthe well-being of future generations Act, how will that go beyond consultation and even design to co-delivery outside the statutory sector, not just with established organisations but by reaching into and unlocking the strengths and assets within the people in the communities of the Valleys?
Why is it, do you think, that, in the eighteenth year of Welsh Government, when the last official figures were produced, the value of goods and services produced per head of population in west Wales and the Valleys was still the lowest out of the 12 UK nations and regions, despite billions spent on economic regeneration and anti-poverty programmes, with Angleseybottom, at 52 per cent,Gwentnot far behind at 56 per cent, and the central Valleys at 63 per cent of the UK average? I hope you will answer that in the context of, for instance, Poland, which began in a similar position on the starting block, but closed the gap, whereas Wales in relative terms has gone backwards. If you decide to take the classic reactionary Welsh Government approach to react against the UK Government and blame the Tories, remember you're speaking to the great-grandson of a miner, whose own father was made redundant in 1978, who worked for a manufacturing company that was one of the many that crashed because of the economic meltdown, and who suffered, as a family, the consequences. So, I hope you won't patronise me with trite responses accordingly.
You refer to the £7 million announcement of capital funding by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance to establish the Valleys regional park in the draft budget over two years. I referred to west Wales and the Valleys, which includes four north Wales counties, which includes the areas with the least prosperity—even lower than Gwent, as referred to. So, how do they fit into this picture? Where is their fund for equivalent regeneration? Because west Wales and the Valleys, under the GVAdescription, which we're still working under as we're still in the EU, does include four north Wales counties, and the poorest part is in the north-west.
You rightly refer to opportunities for green social prescribing—something we're also very committed to as part of the broader co-production agenda. Clearly, there have been a number of failed schemes to ignite regeneration and growth in the Valleys, from the regeneration investment fund for Wales, which the Public Accounts Committee said was
'poorly executed due to fundamental flaws in WelshGovernment oversight and governance arrangements',
not dissimilar to the 2009 Wales Audit Office report findings regarding Communities First, which I'd asked them to conduct—in fact, that only produced a new car park in Neath—or the Ebbw Vale enterprise zone, which failed to generate any meaningful support to create local jobs, or the collapse of the Circuit of Wales. How will you therefore be doing things differently to ensure that this investment is not merely a sticking plaster for the long-standing needs of people in that region?
I'll end on a more, hopefully, constructive and upbeat note, but I think these questions do need to be answered. This programme has introduced a community tourism ambassador scheme, which I am personally interested to discover more about. I grew up, of course, in north Wales, with North Wales Tourism, which has, I think, 1,500 members, and 3,000 people if you include those within those membership groups—or 3,000 organisationsin the membership groups. How will you ensure that this community tourism ambassador scheme not only engages with the statutory sector and the third sector, but also hospitality and tourism providers, to ensure that all the buttons can be pressed together to mutual benefit?

Alun Davies AC: Deputy Presiding Officer, I am in a surprisingly good and generous mood this afternoon, Members will be pleased to hear, so I won't accept the Conservative spokesperson's invitation to turn this debatethis afternoon into a partisan disagreement or a competition between regions of Wales.I think both propositions would be the wrong way to go about answering both the questions, the very fair questions, he set to me, but also the sort of debate that I believe we should be having this afternoon.

Alun Davies AC: Let me say this: the creation of a regional park in the south Wales Valleys should be something that can be celebrated across the whole country. The first speech, Deputy Presiding Officer, I made in this place, actually, something like 11 or 12 years ago, was on the dangers of parochialism, setting village against village, place against place, county against county, north against south, east against west, rural against urban. I think quite often Members do fall into the mistake of making that the proposition of their debate, and I hope that we able to move beyond that, and I hope that we are able to celebrate success in Wales wherever that happens to be. Certainly, what we're debating today is a model that can be—I hope, if it is successful, which I think it will be—extended elsewhere. I hope that, by creating a regional park in the Valleys of south Wales, we're also creating something where lessons can be learned for other parts of Wales as well. I hope also it's a means of uniting Wales so that people will be able to visit parts of Wales that perhaps they haven't done so before and to learn more about our own country, our own history, on our own terms. I think that can only be a good thing.
So, I hope that the Conservative spokesperson will endeavour to look beyond some of the easy lines and will look towards an initiative that will be a unifying initiative, and not something that can be created to divide again, on either party or geographical grounds or social grounds. So, let us not do that.
I hope that the way in which we are taking time to develop the model demonstrates that we are listening to what people are telling us, and listening to what is being said. I hope that when we come to deliver the sorts of governance and the structure of delivery that we will do exactly what the Conservative spokesperson has suggested and do that through co-delivery and through consultation and create a structure of delivery that brings people together from across the region, but at the same time is able to maximise the impact of people, with the different skills, different resources, available to them.
The £7 million that we have allocated to us in the budget is there in order to enable us to do that, to establish that structure, to establish the way of working, to establish the initiative in the first instance, and then, of course, we need to be able to fund that through revenue funding in years to come. But, at the moment, we are looking at how we establish it and how we do co-deliver that with local authorities, with NRW, with the third sector and with different community groups throughout the communities. By doing that I hope we will be able to do more than simply point to numbers on a chart. I recognise only too well the impact of not simply austerity, but of economic chaos, in the community that I represent. I have seen the impact of the closure of a steelworks on my constituency. I've seen the impact of the closure of mines in my constituency. I've seen that happen, and I've seen the impact it's had, not just in the economic graphs the Conservative spokesperson quoted, but I've seen the impact on people and families. What this is about is about creating—. I don't suggest it's a unique experience, but what I'm saying is that we will be measuring the success of this in human terms as well as economic terms, and I hope that we'll also be measuring the success of this in terms of our environment, in terms of our biodiversity, in terms of how we're able to manage our landscapes, in terms of how we're able to teach our own history to our people.
So, I want this to be a far more holistic approach to the future of the south Wales Valleys than simply a structure or a sign on the side of the road. I hope that, when we're able to do that, we will create something that will demonstrate that it has both the resilience and the sustainability of something that we're able to learn from for the future. The tourism ambassador scheme that the Member quotes is exactly the way that we can bring people together and ensure that the businesses, the initiatives, the facilities that we have available in the Valleys are actually generating support and employment for peoplein the Valleys, and it is the peopleof the Valleys who are telling their own stories.

Dai Lloyd AC: Can I welcome the statement and also welcome the ambition that the Cabinet Secretary for Local Government and Public Services has outlined in this excellent statement, I have to say? I'd just like to tease out some of the details because, obviously, as the Cabinet Secretary mentions, we respect and are rightly proud of our rich, unique industrial heritage. Obviously, south Wales powered the industrial revolution after all—yes, indeed, breathtaking in its achievements and also devastating in its effects on the people here in equal measure, as we survey the graves of nine-year-old boys killed in mining accidents and disasters like Senghennyddand Aberfan.
So, I welcome that ambition but also the emphasis of the work that's been going on with the taskforce as regards, particularly, the cultural heritage and identity section. And I was just going to tease out some fundamentals, I think, as regards the importance of the south Wales Valleys in terms of Wales's cultural heritage and identity, first of all as regards the Welsh language. Many people think that the industrialrevolution here in south Wales was actually the saviour of the Welsh language. As the Cabinet Secretary will be aware, the history of the grinding rural poverty of Wales meant that thousands of Welsh speakers moved to the south Wales Valleys to be coal miners from tuberculosis-ridden, poor agricultural farms, as a number of my family did in the past. And when we talk of achieving 1 million Welsh speakers here in Wales, well, just over a century ago, we did have1 million Welsh speakers, and most of them worked in the south Wales Valleys in the middle of that industrialrevolution. So, some recognition of that, I hope, is happeningamongst all the work that is going on with the ministerial taskforceand this wholeValleys regional park idea.
And the second point that I want to emphasiseas regards the cultural identity is, actually, the Christian legacy that involves the south Wales Valleys. We see it now in hundreds of non-conformist chapels—most of them shut; some, occasionally, thriving—and the history of powerful preachers and revivals dotted around the last 250 years. And, obviously, some of us—Mike Hedges and I and Dafydd Elis-Thomas—were together in Tabernacle, Morriston, last Friday, to celebrate this exact legacy of the coming together of heavy industry, Welsh language and Christian history—celebrated in Tabernacle, Morriston then, obviously, with a piece of work being done in another Government department.
So, my essential question, when I'm goingon about both the Welsh language and the Christian heritage is: what work is happeningto ensure that different governmental pursuitsin different portfolios are actually complementing one another rather than driving across? Because the south Wales Valleys do have an extremely rich Christian heritage.My own great-uncle had to leave a very poor farm near Dolgellau to settle in Aberdare and became a hymn writerand a printer there. And, in fact, Ap Hefin, Henry Lloyd, is the author of thehymn 'I Bob Un Sy'nFfyddlon', which we still sing around rugby theatres these days, not just in our chapels. Some unkind members of my family have suggested he was the only one with any talent in the Lloyd genealogy.
But other hymn tunes come to mind, like 'Cwm Rhondda'. There'sno wider encapsulation of the south Wales Valleys culture—one of the most inspirational hymn tunes ever—as is 'CalonLân'. Both the words and the tunes come from Swansea. And that's not withstanding our rich history of male voice choirs and brass bands that came about because of that same rich industrialhistory of all of our south Wales Valleys. So, Iwould hope that, in terms of the culturalheritage and identity, full reinis being madeand not just some sort of lip service to—at some pointin the past some Welsh was spoken in these Valleys and occasionally some people did go to chapel. It is actually a very rich, inspiring history that is quite often forgotten. Diolch yn fawr.

Alun Davies AC: The Member for South Wales West has made me feel quite inadequate. None of my family, as far as I know, have written any hymns at all—

Dai Lloyd AC: There's still time.

Alun Davies AC: I hope so—although a number of us have, at different times, tried to sing them. I did fear for a moment that the Member was going to go through the whole caniedyddat one point, which would have left me feeling even more inadequate.
However, he also touched on some fascinating points. He might not wish to know this, but the book by the side of my bed at the moment is 'I Know Another Way'. It's brought together by Jon Gower and it builds upon the work of the late and much missed Robin Reeves—Members may be familiar—who spoke and wrote about the pilgrims' routes across the Valleys of south Wales. He wrote about the route from Tinternacross to St David's, that pilgrim route that, at the time, was equivalent to a visit to Rome—two visits to St David's were equivalent to a visit to Rome. But going to Rome, of course, doesn't necessitate going to the shrine of St Mary's at Penrhys. So, there are some advantages of following Tinternto St David's rather than bothering with Rome.
We have a history there that I believe is not simply a unique history of a time and a place, but it is something that we, I believe, have a duty to teach ourselves, if you like. I was speaking in my constituency last week about the Chartists and the Chartist march from TwynStar in Tredegar and elsewhere down to Newport. Many of the men who assembled in Twyn Star on that night in November would have been speaking Welsh, unable to speak English. The linguistic history of the Valleys is reflected in the lives of many of us who are from the Valleys.My own family left Aberystwyth to work in Tredegar. My grandmother was born in Penparcau, arrived in Glanhowy in Tredegarunable to speak a word of English. She brought up my father to speak only English, and I spoke only English as a child. I've learnt to speak Welsh, and now my children are first language Welsh speakers. That history of the language is something that is reflected in the personal and family histories of many of us.
The social, linguistic and industrialheritage can be brought together. We've seen the Soarcentre in Merthyr, of course, which is doing a fantasticjob of recreating these great cathedrals to nonconformity, as you saw in Morriston the other day, and developing a new Welsh language culture and a new Welsh heritage, which are being created by ourselves in these Valleys. I think it is important that we do talk to each other and tell these stories.
I remember Gwyn Alf Williams speaking some years ago now and describing the arc of fire from Blaenavon to Merthyr and talking about himself as a schoolboy in Merthyr—he always referred to his parents as the schoolteachers of Dowlais, of course, with the emphasis on both the schoolteachers and the Dowlais—and talking there about what he had learnt, talking about the hearth of the furnace and how that created the MerthyrTydfil of his childhood and how we today have an opportunity to do that again.
That is why this gateways concept is so important, so that somewhere like Merthyr, with the Crucible project that the local authority are pursuing at the moment, can, once again, recreate these stories, recreate these ideas of who we were and who we can be. What we're seeking to do in teaching our children about that history—we're learning more about ourselves.
Certainly, at the celebration of the seventieth anniversary of the national health service, myself and the Cabinet Secretary for Finance were lucky enough to speak on that day in Tredegar, where we celebrated not simply the seventieth anniversary of the Act of Parliament but the one-hundred-and-twenty-eighth anniversary of the establishment of the Tredegar Medical Aid Society that predated it,talking about not just the social history but the socialist history of the Valleys as well. I've been tempted, sorry, to break my own remarks earlier, so I won't go down that route this afternoon, but I hope that we will be able to bring together this idea of our heritage, our place and our landscape. I think the word 'place'is important, because it brings together all these different elements of what we're seeking to do.

Vikki Howells AC: Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. I think it's fair to say that there's an awful lot of goodwill across this Chamber for the Valleys taskforce initiative, but, perhaps, at the start, that was tempered with some cautious optimism when it was thought that there were wouldn't be a discrete budget line for it. So, I very much welcome the commitment of £7 million towards the Valleys regional park.
I was looking through the regional park's prospectus earlier today, and I was very pleased to see the mention of developing opportunities for the foundational economy within that. As one of the Assembly Members who has been keen to champion the benefits of the foundational economy, I think this is really great news. I know, for instance, there may be opportunities presented to communities like Ynysybwl, where there are plans to host a range of foundational activities, linking into the Valleys regional park there. So, I wonder if you're able to expand for us on the potential for the foundational economy within this agenda.
I'd also like to pick up a few other points from the prospectus, firstly around feedback. I welcome your comments in the Chamber today around inviting communities to take part in moving this initiative forward, but could you give us some further details on how communities can continue to be engaged in developing the priorities and objectives of the regional park for themselves? As the document notes, our Valleys communities are not homogenous, and I know that's something that you yourself have said several times within this Chamber, so how will that engagement work reflect the nature of those different communities?
Additionally, I know this is something I've flagged up with other Ministers, but I think there are real opportunities within the regional parks for exploiting our network of disused railway tunnels—that's in terms of active travel links, heritage tourism and so much more. How could you see this fitting into the wider Valleys regional park policy? I'm thinking specifically of the Abernant tunnel, which links my constituency with my colleague Dawn Bowden'sconstituency in Merthyr Tydfil, and comes out, really, right at the entrance to BikePark Wales. So, the potential there, in my opinion, and I know in Dawn's opinion too, is absolutely massive.
Lastly, last week, I took part in a guided walk of the old Gadlysironworks. I'm in danger of upsetting my colleague Dawn Bowden, who represents, obviously, the seat that is most known for its iron heritage, but the Gadlysironworks in Aberdareare actually described as the best-preserved set of blast furnaces in the UK. This was a real eye-opener, but one that far too few people actually know about.Projects like that carry major financial undertakings, and this one in particular is reliant on a team of volunteers linked to the CynonValley Museum, so it's really hard to tap the potential of that. Will there be the potential for organisationslike that to tap into the regional park agenda and put forward a case for linking in heritage sites such as that?

Alun Davies AC: Of course, the Gadlysironworks are well known, and their comparison with Merthyrhas been well made, but they both, of course, fade into insignificance when compared with Sirhowy, where the ironworks there—. It's a good example, actually, of where an extraordinarily important part of our heritage was left to rot and to decay for decade after decade, because we—all of us here from the region—never understood its importance in historical terms. It's us who left it there—we can't blame a London Government or far-away places for allowing that to happen. It is to ensure that future generations are able to learn and understand that that we wish to invest in these places today.
I look at these places—my poor old eight-year-old son has spent far too much of his holidays, I think, being taken by his father to visit various places.I get the sense quite oftenhe would prefer to be watching tv, but he's dragged across to—. He's been to Blaenavon on many occasions, he's too short to go down to Big Pit, but it'll come. He hasn't visited Gadlys yet, but he will do so, and he's visited the history of Merthyr as well, where you've got the history of railways as well, of course, taking place there.
But let's look at that issue about the tunnels. I visited the Rhondda last week, I went to Blaencwm and spoke to the group of people there who were hoping to reopen the tunnel between Blaencwm and Blaengwynfi. When I was driving away from there, I was left with the idea of fantastic creativity more than anything else—the creativity of people who know their place, and the creativity of people who understand their place, and the creativity of people who have ambition for their place and their community. In driving this project forward, it won't be civil servants in Cathays Park, or even Ministers in Cardiff Bay, it'll be those people who have an idea, a dream, an identity, a sense of place and a sense of history that will drive forward this project, and make a great success of it.And that is why the Member for the Cynon Valley talks about the foundational economy. It is essential, in doing so, that the wealth that we create remains in the community, and it remains as part of that community, helping to not simply regenerate that community, but recreate those communities. And, you know, for me—and the Conservatives spokesperson outlined this himself—the success of this project will be measured in cultural and historic terms, but we must always recognise the importance of creating sustainable work in our Valley communities. I hope that we'll be able to do that, and that the wealth that we generate will be able to remain in the community.
Can I just say a word about Ynysybwl? The last time I visited Ynysybwl, I was on my way to Llanwonno, and I called into the Fountain up there; some Members may be aware of it. And walking around—I didn't follow Nyth Brân's example of running to Mountain Ash, but I walked through the forestry of Llanwonno, and I have to say you could be anywhere in the world, the spectacular forestry we have there, natural woodland as well. It's something that I think we should think hard about: how do we in Wales create a forestry or a woodland that is part of our identity? And, I was walking through the Clydach Gorge above my own constituency down to Abergavenny some weeks ago, looking at the natural woodland there. That is a historic woodland of Wales. It is a historical environment, a historical ecosystem, so how do we safeguard that into the future, and how do we ensure that we have not only the water management we need to have, the ecosystem management that we need to have, but then ensure that we have access as well, so that people are able to access these wonderful sites, understand what those sites mean? And then address the issues that were brought up in a statement on access for disabled people, to ensure that this access is available to everybody throughout the community, and that we manage that to enable everybody to benefit from it.
So, I think all of the opportunities we have here are opportunities that we will realise if we work together, and if we co-produce together something that none of us could achieve independently or apart.

Gareth Bennett AC: Thanks to the Minister for his statement today. As we've noted, the Valleys have always boasted dramatic landscapes, so it makes sense to utilise that as far as we can. So, I think the basic idea of a Valleys regional park is quite a sound one, and I wish you well with progressing it, and I hope it comes to fruition as something that people from outside the area can enjoy as visitors, and people within the area can also enjoy as a facility that's local to them.
Now, Dai Lloyd took us on a very evocative journey through the history and the culture of the Valleys. Nobody here is going to be able to match that. A lot of elements were—[Interruption.] I know. Yes, I acknowledge that, Bethan, myself. Now, Dai took usthrough a lot of different elements. Miners halls, he didn't mention because a lot of them are still there, but of course some of them are struggling, and they are part of that cultural fabric of the Valleys as well. So, I wonder how far they can be integrated into this vision of the Valleys regional park. I think they're an important part of the landscape. Rugby, I suppose, is another thing—some of the famous rugby clubs are struggling. I'm not sure if that has any relevance, but possibly it does.
I think that there are maybe three main issues that we need to tackle. There's a problem of transport connectivity, related to that there's an issue of infrastructure and facilities, and finally the issue of how far we can utilise the landscape to help with achieving future generations goals. As we know, there are problemsin the Valleys—there are problems throughout Wales but sometimes in the Valleys they're worse with things like physical fitness, obesity, stuff like that. Can we use the proximity of the Valleys to the very dramatic scenery to encourage more physical activity? Is that going to form part of the plan?
With the transport connectivity, we need things like the tunnels—the tunnels are a very good idea. I met people from the Rhondda Tunnel Society over the summer. They have come and they've developed the scheme from nothing. It is very much their vision and I'm glad that it's getting help from the Welsh Government. So, can you give us any more information on how that is going to be advanced? Obviously, we've heard from another Member—the Cynon Valley Member—that that's not the only tunnel, there are other tunnels as well connecting other valleys.
There are also issues of public facilities. A lot of people go cycling up the Valleys as it is. They go up to places like the Rhigos and the Bwlch. Currently, there are a lack of facilities like cafes and public toilets. So, if we want to get more people there, we do need to look at the infrastructure, so what can we do—what can you do, rather, Minister, to encourage more infrastructure? Diolch ynfawriawn.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Alun Davies AC: In terms of taking forward a number of different issues, we've seen through the community asset transfer process a number of community assets that are having life breathed into them afresh. I visited the BlaenavonWorkmen's Hall some time ago and it's extraordinary to see it reborn again. In my own constituency, LlanhillethMiners Institute continues to be a centre of the community. You know, you drive across the Valleys or you move across the Valleys, you have Maesteg Town Hall and the miners welfare in Ystradgynlais. You can name a number of different facilities that are at the heart of those communities. What I hope we'll be able to do is to ensure that they remain at the heart of their communities.
In many ways, the cultural issues that the Plaid CymruMember for South Wales West has already referred to are at the heart of our ambition. But if we are to succeed, then the infrastructure that is being described is absolutely essential: the transport infrastructure, an infrastructure of facilities—whether it be public toilets or whether it be visitor centres or cafes, restaurants, hotels, accommodation—has to be in place. It is this sort of infrastructure that we would be looking towards developing and putting in place over time. That is why, in developing the concept, we are working with, not simply local authorities and NRW and other public bodies, but working with all of those people who are able to deliver and support those facilities across the Valleys region.

Dawn Bowden AC: Can I say, before I even start, that I think—in terms of the historical nature of our constituencies and the heritage—can I just say that the tunnel goes from Merthyr to Abernant, not the other way around? [Laughter.] RichardTrevithick discovered the steam locomotive in 1803 and he went from Penydarren in Merthyrto Aberdare. Okay.
Can I just say—can I thank you first of all—? [Interruption.] [Laughter.] Not that we're competitive at all about our history, but there we are. Can I thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement? I'm going to bring it back to some slightly more mundane areas. We've had many conversations about the concerns around the upper Rhymneyvalley and I'd like to take this opportunityof thanking you and theCabinet Secretary for economy for coming with me to visit local representatives and organisations and members of the public, and talking to them and sharing those concerns. But it does seem to me that, in many of our former industrial areaslike Rhymney, looking at new innovative ways of regeneration is vital, so I very much welcome theinterlinked delivery themes around the proposals for the regional park, particularly the aspects of it that cross the Heads of the Valleys.
You'll know that, in parts of Rhymney, we still have large areas of derelict former industrial land, whichis symbolic of the decline in those communities over the last 30 years or so, and those areas have still failed to attract significant business investment. But, having said that, the whole area, as you've already said, issurrounded by breathtaking natural beauty. So, we have this industrial dereliction in the centre of something that is surrounded by such beauty, and we do need to clearly exploit that, to meet both the economic and the well-being goals.
And I look at some of the success, thehuge success, of some of the leisure activities that we've seen developed in the former slate quarries in north Wales, and I wonder whether that represents a kind of blueprint for what we could do in some of our former industrial areas in thesouthWales Valleys. Given that the well-being of the Valleyscommunitiesis such a vital component of the work of the taskforce, can I ask whether it's part of your vision for a Valleys regional park to look at those areas of dereliction with a view to possibly redeveloping for leisure activity and accommodation, to kind of complement the areas of natural beauty, turning them into visitor attractions in their own right and using this as one of the alternatives to just bringing back in industry to regenerate industrial or former industrial areas?
I was also very pleased to hear you mention, I think in answer to Dai Lloyd, about the Design Commissionfor Wales in Merthyr Tydfil, and I'd welcome your expanding a little bit more on that, because the proposals around the Design Commission charrette, what comes out of that is not just the buildings—Cyfarthfa castleand the blast furnaces and so on—but it's also about telling the whole story of the iron industry in Merthyrand the people who created it, right the way through to the Merthyr rising and beyond, and whether that forms part of your vision of the Valleys landscape park. Will that kind of experience around the history and the heritage be part of the landscape park as well?

Alun Davies AC: Yes, absolutely, it will be, and the litmus test will be Rhymney—I have no doubt about that. If we are to look at the development of the regional park as a concept, as a framework for other developments taking place within it, then if we succeed then we will succeed in Rhymney.You look at those sorts of communities where you've had major towns close by—we've seen some significant investment and development, and smaller towns have not seen that same level of investment, and we both saw the impact of that on the town centre there at that time. We need to be able to ensure that people,whether it be in Rhymney or elsewhere, are able to see the benefit of that and that it isn't just a speech made in Cardiff Bay, but a reality on people's doorsteps and in people's lives.
I was inspired when I went through and spoke to people about the Crucible project in Merthyr, for the reason that you give: that it isn't simply about the built environment—of course it is, but it isn't simply about that—it's about the people who live there as welland the people who live in our communities, and it's about our stories, our history, our futures. And our ability to do that, I think, is absolutely key and fundamental to the success of this project. The Minister for cultureand tourism and heritage is in his place this afternoon and will be listening to these exchanges, and the conversations that we've had about how our heritage is a part of our future are absolutely central to what we want to be able to achieve. He was kind enough to visit my constituency to discuss the legacy of Aneurin Bevan in the spring, and it is bringing together those different threads that we want to be able to do and to ensure that we are able to reinvent these communities. The Member for Merthyr—. The Member forMerthyr Tydfil and Rhymney is right to—I nearly made a mistake, a terrible mistake, there—is right to identify the derelict land we see around the town and the top end of the Rhymneyvalley. I'm familiar with that. We need to look at how we recreate these communities. It's not only in Rhymney, but it's elsewhere, where we see that land that has been previously used for heavy industry is no longer required in that same way.
One of the issues that we're addressing as part of the wider work of the Valleys taskforce, which we'll debate on other occasions this afternoon, is the issue of the upper Valleys. I think there are specific issues in the Heads of the Valleys that are more difficult, if you like, than in other parts of the Valleys. So, we will be looking at that, specifically. But certainly, I hope that we'll be able, in the coming years, to demonstrate that the work we're putting in place today will be seen in the future as a turning point for the Valleys and will be seen as something that didn't just lead to economic growth, but led to social change as well, and a change to our futures. I hope that we can achieve that.

We're out of time on the statement, but I'll take two further short contributions and questions. Suzy Davies.

Suzy Davies AC: Okay. Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Just briefly, then, we're not finished on top trumps with ironworks—I'm going to raise you all with Neath ironworks. But I do it very specifically, because, of course, there's no mention of co-production in the prospectus itself, but it does refer to community stewardship, and I really hope thatyou will look on the Neath and Dulaisvalleys as good candidates for gateways—as examples where community stewardship of natural and cultural heritage assets are very apparent. And, of course, an area where tourism—part of the Valleystaskforcework—can be developed in a way that is mutually beneficial for the well-being of residents and for the economy, without Disneyfying what the offer is there.
You have the example of the Dyfi biosphere before you, Cabinet Secretary, about where that balance is achievable. It's internationally recognisedand there may be some lessons we can learn down south from that as well. So, my primary question is: where will these grass-roots bodies, while responsible for community stewardship, get access to these funds? Is it all just to be spent at strategic level?
And then, I wonder if you could answer a question that Dai Lloyd raised, but you didn't answer at the time about cross-Government working. Because we have a situation in Neath at the moment, where there have been some deficiencies or difficulties and an inability for Welsh Government to spend money on restoring the Cefn Coed headframes at the mining museum there. Is the strategy you're talking about able to backfill problems like that or should we not be looking for money from this source to disguise the deficiencies elsewhere? Thank you.

Alun Davies AC: Presiding Officer, all discussions about the Valleys of south Wales must include a discussion on Neath. It is absolutely essential that we pay attention to the history and the culture of that fantastic place. Let me say this: I visited CefnCoed, I understand the issues—I hope I understand some of the issues there—and we do need to look at how we ensure that Government works together across all different portfolios and changing portfolios to ensure that we deliver for people.
Now, one of the issues I want to address over the coming weeks and months is to put together a structure of delivery in place. We have a prospectus being launched today, we have the concept being launched today and what we need to do now is to ensure that we have the governance in place and a delivery structure in place that will enable us to make it a reality and that is what we'll be working on next. And certainly, the issues around the community and ensuring that community groups are able to be a part of that is absolutely essential and it will be a litmus test, as I've already said, for how we will seek to deliver this concept.

Finally, RhianonPassmore.

Rhianon Passmore AC: Diolch, Llywydd. Thank you. First of all, can I very much welcome this exciting initiative and also the principles that underpin it? Can Iask what impact the £7 million investment within the Valleys regional park initiative will have on the former industrialised valleys of Islwyn, with all of the natural beauty, the landscapes that have already been referenced and its heritage? In particular, I have to mention the Navigation colliery in Crumlin, but of course, the iconic scenic drive within Cwmcarn. So, will the Minister commit to doing everything within this initiative to secure its very important place, both culturally and economically, and its continued success, both tourism wise and in training, across south Wales but also internationally?

Alun Davies AC: Yes, andCwmcarnis,in many ways, a model for what we would seek to be able to achieve, ensuring that we have public access to a fantastic landscape, to an experience that the family can enjoy, and to ensure that people understand the place in which they live or are visiting. So, Cwmcarn, in many ways, is the sort of model that we want to develop in other places, and to ensure that there are other opportunities. We spoke earlier about Llanwonno forestry area, and about how we can ensure that this environment is a part of our future in a way that, perhaps, it isn't at the moment. When I drive past Navigation and I see the pit structures in place there, I am not simply reminded of the past, but I am reminded of the opportunities that we will have in the future. The buildings around the Navigation I think are a fantastic industrial part of our heritage. The bridge has gone now, the Crumlin viaduct has disappeared, but it's important to ensure that we do have a use and an ongoing sustainable use for the industrial buildings that created the communities in which we now live.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.

9. Statement by the Minister for Housing and Regeneration: Update on Year 2 of the Innovative Housing Programme

The next item, therefore, is a statement by the Minister for Local Government and Public Services—. No. That looks wrong to me. The statement by the Minister for Housing and Regeneration, Rebecca Evans—an update on year 2 of the innovative housing programme. Sorry to panic you, Cabinet Secretary. Rebecca Evans.

Rebecca Evans AC: Diolch, Llywydd. I am very pleased to be able to brief Members on the second year of the innovative housing programme. The Welsh Government has prioritised Housing because prosperity is not just about material wealth, it is about every one of us having a good quality of life and living in strong, safe communities where individuals and businesses flourish. Building good-quality housing, and more of it, is fundamental to achieving these ambitions.
We're determined to increase the number of homes available, increase the rate at which they’re delivered, and improve the quality of homes built so that they're able to meet changing needs and expectations. We must also ensure that we are building not just for the tenants and the residents of today, but for future generations. We need to reduce fuel poverty, reduce the impact of house building on the environment, and reduce health and well-being inequalities, which are exacerbated by poor-quality housing. So, done the right way, we have an opportunity to build high-quality, near-zero-carbon homes, capturing and boosting the skills and expertise within the Welsh construction and manufacturing industries.
Achieving our ambition will require a radically different way of working, for us and for our partners. It is clear that if the scale and pace of house building is to increase significantly, traditional approaches are unlikely to deliver on their own. A fresh approach is required, which is why, last year, the innovative housing programme was launched. The programme aims to stimulate the design and delivery of new high-quality, affordable homes, through new housing models, new delivery pathways and new construction techniques.Organisations are challenged to develop fresh thinking for delivery sooner rather than later, to address issues such as fuel poverty and demographic change, and to help us meet our carbon reduction targets. Currently, the programme has invested in 20 new models and new approaches to building social housing and affordable homes, and 276 houses are under way and due for completion.
The level of interest in the IHP continues to grow. This year we received nearly 40 per cent more bids for funding. We also opened the programme to the private sector to submit bids, and I welcomed the positive response from a range of organisations who are prepared to join with Government in the search for future housing solutions. In total this year, 48 bids for funding were received. An independent panel was tasked with assessing the schemes to identify how far they offered the innovation and the value required for the scale of change we want to see. I'm grateful to the panel for their work, and I'm delighted to say that Welsh Government has decided to fund 26 schemes this financial year.
Subject to completing the necessary due diligence checks, I will be making available almost £43.1 million to build 657 homes.All successful applicants have been informed and a full list of the successful schemes will be on the Welsh Government website shortly.
I'd like to take this opportunity to tell you about a few of schemes that will receive investment, to give you a flavour of what we will be funding. We will be supporting a new 10-storey cross-laminated timber tower with vertical greening, creating 50 new homes in Cardiff. It shows real ambition from the housing association concerned to submit a scheme that will be a UK first. The material used is both sustainable and low carbon, and it will also have a much shorter construction phase, estimated to be only 12 weeks. We will also be funding another scheme using dowel-laminated timber, on a smaller scale, so that we can compare and contrast the two construction methods.
There will be a new factory in north Wales. We will be funding three schemes in north Wales that will together establish and support the provision of a new local factory that will deliver new local jobs and training. The timber-framed homes built at the factory will be Beattie Passive accredited, using high-performance insulation, and will be draught-free to eliminate heat loss. The factory will create homes with very low environmental impact and reduced fuel costs for tenants.
Support is being made available for a green energy model housing co-operative. We will be funding a housing co-operative from first principles development, which will see the main contractor, who is already based in Wales, building residential homes for the first time. The scheme will focus on the utilisation of green energy technologies for communal energy generation, to reduce running costs, service charges and overall carbon emissions.
There will be a large development of energy-positive homes. Investment in Parc Eirin will deliver 225 new energy-positive homes that will achieve near-zero-carbon emissions. For part of the year, the homes will be a net exporter of energy, contributing power to the national grid, and fuel poverty will be eliminated for these tenants. The scheme will demonstrate that we can deliver at scale and produce a replicable financial model for future housing development of this scale.
Support is being made available for a project involving healthcare delivery and education delivery through the medium of sustainable home construction. Six timber-frame homes will be delivered in a collaboration between a housing association, a charity and the local health board. The homes will be constructed by adults from a range of vulnerable groups, including people with traumatic brain injuries, asylum seekers, refugees and homeless people.
I'm pleased that 22 out of the 26 schemes incorporate timber into their proposals, as the Welsh Government is committed to supporting the timber industry in Wales to play a more prominent role in the construction and manufacturing of affordable homes.
Innovation is never without risk. I'm not expecting every scheme to provide the long-term solutions that we're looking for. But I know we must do something different. All the schemes will be subject to robust monitoring and evaluation so that we can learn what works best and why. This includes asking tenants and residents about their experience of what the homes are like to live in.
Turning to next year, I want the programme to push the boundaries on both the type and the scale of innovation. I expect to see more beauty in home design, more innovation in supply chains, as well as more exciting collaborations between housing associations, local authorities, private and public bodies. Only by doing this will more homes be delivered more quickly, to meet the needs and aspirations of people in Wales now and into the future.

David Melding AC: I welcome the continuation of this programme, and I am pleased to see that it's now being opened to the private sector. I think when it was announced last year there was a general feeling around the Chamber that this was a very positive development, and I see no reason to change that initial assessment.
I particularly welcome the emphasis on building design, because if we are to build for future generations we need to build well. And can I congratulate the Minister? I think it's the first time I've ever heard the word 'beauty' used in reference to a public policy. So, I agree with you that we do need more beauty in building design, especially as we turn to a more modular type of building, because it is innovative, and it can be usedin ways that will mark ways out, then, in terms of its quality of design.
Could the Minister outline how this programme will link to the UK Government's industrialstrategy challenge fund, which last month awarded £36 million to Swansea University's SPECIFIC Innovation and KnowledgeCentre? That grant will help turn homes and public buildings into mini power stations, and has a particular aim to accelerate market adoption. And I'm sure that those are core aims also of this programme. And it's important that these various initiativesare linked up as much as possible.
I would like this—. Not mentioned in your statementat all, the next point—how will the innovative housing programme inform the work of the affordable housing review? And will it play a role in assessing how innovations can be delivered at scale, which is one of the main tasks you've given to the housing review?
Can I finish by emphasisingthat when we're looking for innovations, it is appropriate to take, with due diligence, certain risks? I do think that is something thatshould be programmedin to this initiative. And not every innovation will reach the market. Indeed, sometimes, what reaches the market and gets used is not the best innovation, for a whole host of reasons. So, we do need to cover our bets, in a sense, and cover a range of initiatives and use the fund in that way. But I would like to know a bit more about how the monitoringand evaluation mechanisms are going to be used to assess the programme, though, obviously, I'm delighted that tenants are going to be a core part of that assessment.

Rebecca Evans AC: Thank you very much for those questions and your support,again, this year for the innovative housing programme. I'll begin with the final point you made, which was about how we will be monitoring and evaluating the programme. One of the exciting things about the innovative housing programme is that all applicantsfor fundingmust agree to an open-book policy. So, that will include regular progress reports to theinnovative housing programme working group. They must agree to monitoringduring and post construction. They must agree to data collection, so particularly on issues of cost and performance. And then they must agree to the public dissemination of the lessons learned through theirprojects. So, the specific things that we'llbe looking for in the monitoring andevaluation will be about the technical side of things, the performance of the buildings, the construction experience, and, as you've recognised, the tenant-based work as well.
So, simple questions: do the tenants like theirhome as a pleasantand comfortable place to live? Are the homes flexible to accommodate current and future lifestyles? Are they low energy for occupants to live in? Are they low cost for occupants to live in? Would these homes be affordable to build in future? Can they be built at pace?Can they be built at scale? Are they well built?Are they affordable to maintain in future? And does the overall development create a good place to live? So, these are the kind of questions that we will be asking through part of our work to undertake the monitoring and evaluation.
You referred to the affordable housing review, and this work, very much, is going along in parallel with that and is informing the work of the affordable housing review. As you'll be aware, underneath that review, there are several work streamsthat are looking at specific areas that need attention if we are to increase our ambitions for the building of affordable housing infuture. One of those work streamsis about standards and the development of quality requirements. So, we'll be looking at to what extent our existing standards are correct and where they might need changing if we are to build in different ways in future. And there'salso a specific work stream looking at construction supply chain, including modern methods of construction. So, this work streamwill consider how the supply chain, right across the modern methods, will work and how we can scale that up in future as well. What's the capacity? Are there skills shortages? These are all questions that that particular sub-groupwill be looking at.
You referred to the excellent announcementrecently regarding the fundingthat SPECIFIC and Swansea University have secured.Welsh Government was really pleased to provide supporting letters to that project and is delighted to be able to provide £6.5 million to support that project as well. There are a couple of our projects that we're announcing today that relate specifically to the SPECIFIC development, and one is land at Park Yr Helyg, Colliers Way in Swansea. That will be a homes-as-power-stations project, combining renewables—so photovoltaics, batteries, ground source heat pumps, mechanical ventilation with heat recovery—and also using what's called a Swansea standard fabric first timber frame.And that is a collaboration between SPECIFIC and the Swansea city deal. There's a second project as well at Crown Way inLlandarcy, which will be an innovationpark to showcase modular and volumetric house building and to compare the systems and compare some of the learning that we have here in Wales with what is experienced overseas. So, this is an interesting part of the research and learning of the project, so it's very much linked into the active homes work that's already been announced.
In terms of design, I think it is really important that we have high aspirations and high ambitions for our affordable housing and social housing. It should be our goal that people who live in social housing live in beautiful housing that everybody can be proud of. When we see surveys, community—sorry, the Chartered Institute of Housing undertook a survey recently. People who live in social housing are proud of it, they're proud of their communities, so let's try and build the most beautiful houses that we possibly can for those communities. So this is, again, something that the affordable housing review islooking at but something that I want to have a greater focus onin year 3 of the programme.
And then, I should mention that, in devising the technical specifications for the innovative housing programme, it was done with a steering group, which waschaired by Gayna Jones of the Design Commission for Wales. So, we certainly have a strong focus on good quality design.
And finally, I was really pleased to be able to open this up to the private sector this year.I'm really keen to have a strong focus on supporting SMEs particularly to return to house building. They left housebuilding some time agoand have been concentrating on renovation work and so on, but I think they have a really strong role to play in the future of house building. Of course, when housing associations are building homes, when homes are being built through our innovative housing programme, it is SMEs that are partnering with them to deliver that. So, I think that this is another string to our bow in terms of supporting SMEs alongside things like the property development fund and our work on stalled sites.

Bethan Sayed AC: I'd like to thank you for this statement, and I'm encouraged by it. It's clear that the chosen schemes will add up to 657 new homes, rather than the 276 built last year, and the budget for this has increased considerably. In the past, I and my colleagueSiân Gwenllianhave called for the scheme to be more ambitious in its target and scale, and significantly more than doubling the number of homes is a good start. So, it's important to welcome that and to note when we are making good progress.
It's important to note that this should play a part in thewider approach to affordable housing. Six hundred and fifty seven new homes out of a target of 20,000is an improvement on last year's total.I understand that part of this process is identifying what will work and what will not in order to support larger schemes in the future.Will you commit that next year'sbudget for this programme will increase if demand increases again and, crucially, if opportunities are identified to fund much larger projects? I understand that money is tight, but this could be an investment that saves in the longer term. Further to that point, if you're able to tackle the prospect of climate change—and reports recently suggest that this is becoming an increasingly dire and urgent challenge—innovation has to be part of this. If you want to move to a green energy future, and that is achievable in terms of power generation quite sooner than many people think, if we commit to it, we must also be smarter about that energy use and use less of it, and this sort of scheme is important as part of that whole holistic picture.
You mention innovation in the supply chains, and I would like to ask specifically what's being done to achieve that.I understand that more timber and sustainable materialsare being used. What other materials are we looking at? Are we increasing our use of traditional Welsh materials, such as slate, for example? Last year, when the late Carl Sargeant delivered this update, David Melding pointed outthe cost of using more bespoke designs and materials, so is there movement on bringing down those costs, and are there options to speed this up?
I'd like to know a little moreregarding using innovation on a much larger scale, too, because, as has been noted, innovation comes with a cost, and if we are going to produce homes such as those on a much larger scale, to really make an impact on how sustainable this industry and the housing sector can be, it's important we try to identify methods that can be produced on a more mass scale.
So, I have those questions but, generally, we thank you for the statement here today.

Rebecca Evans AC: Thank you very much for your welcome for the statement, and also for your comments. The overall budget for the programme over the three years stands at £90 million. However, there are plenty of opportunities here for the innovative housing programme to work with other funds of money. So, the social housing grant, for example, has been used in a number of the projects that we're announcing today in order to create a package of support. Some elements will be given funding just for the innovative element, whereas others will be for a larger part of that project as well. So, there are, again, innovative ways we can look at financing the projects.
You referred to the importance of making sure that these projects really are about the whole supply chain and not just about the end delivery. There's £4 million, for example, for Cartrefi Croeso Ltd. They're building 30 homes in Burry Port. They're using Welsh timber and also local offsite manufacturing, using local labour. Also, alongside that, then, they'll be using the Tŷ Solar panels, manufactured in west Wales. So, wherever possible, there's been work going on to ensure that delivery is based on a very local footprint in order to both benefit the local economy, but also reduce that carbon footprint as much as possible. There are several great examples in the schemes that have been announced today as to how those supply chains have been sought to be made as short and as local as possible.
In terms of timber, you asked whether it is just about timber. No, there are lots of other innovative materials that are being used. So, the Stackpole infill project in Pembroke will be a system designed as an over-55s apartment block, and Welsh timber will be used there, but also clay-based paints for a low pollution, carcinogen-free environment will be used as well. So, we're trying to look at all opportunities, not just in the outer construction of the frame of the building, in order to use greener approaches, if you like.
The issue of decarbonisation of homes is a huge issue. The innovative housing programme gives us some of the answers for the future, but it certainly doesn't help us in terms of the existing housing stock we have which is, as you know, some of the oldest and least thermo-efficient housing in Europe. So, this is one of the reasons we've established the advisory group on the decarbonisation of existing homes, and we've tasked that to help us shape a programme to realise our decarbonisation ambitions in the existing housing stock. Now, that's going to involve a lot of retrofitting work, and it won't be just the part of Government to do that; this is something where we will have to work alongside mortgage lenders, planners, the construction sector but also individuals as well, so that when people are thinking of investing in their home, actually, they see investing in the energy efficiency of their home as attractive as investing in something more, perhaps, tangible, such as a new bathroom or those kinds of things. So, it is going to take a big shift, I think, in terms of people's expectations and their willingness to engage in this agenda. It's certainly a journey that we're starting along.
Our ambition was to create 1,000 affordable homes as part of our 20,000 affordable homes through this project. What I would like to see ultimately, though, is these kinds of models of construction becoming much more mainstream. So, this isn't by any means a niche project; this is a trailblazer, really, I think, to help us revolutionise the way we build homes in Wales.

Gareth Bennett AC: Thanks, Minister, for your statement today. I agree it's a promising programme, and it'll be interesting to see how far you can progress it and how much impact it will ultimately have on your housebuilding targets. I'm glad you see a big role in this for the SMEs. I think that's a welcome development. You mentioned the skills shortage that we do have in the construction industry in general, and with innovative housing there may well be certain specialist skills that are needed. So, how far can you ensure that we are making every effort in Wales to train Welsh people to do these jobsand to help progress with your programme for innovative housing? There's also an issue of where we build the houses. There is a need to make sure we use brownfield sites as far as possible, so do you recognise that need and are you doing as much as possible to utilise the brownfieldsites?
I think we recognisethat innovation can take many forms and there are many different kinds of schemes. I know you're investigating lots of different models and that only some of them eventually come to fruition. So, innovation is good.I note that, last year, there was a Tesco built in London where, as one of the planning conditions, they had to provide flats above the store. That was the first scheme of that kind that I'd heard of. That's only an example, but are there innovative ideas like that that can be used where we tweak the planning conditions so that we get more types of innovative housing? Thank you.

Rebecca Evans AC: Thank you very much for those questions. I certainly would like to see a planning system that does enable innovation in housing. We have an opportunity here with the review of planning and housing, which the Cabinet Secretary for environment, under her responsibilities for planning, announced earlier in the summer. I think that this is a chance really to put innovation at the heart of our thinking in terms of our planning system for housing.
In relation to skills, I'm really aware that this is an area—naturally, of course, because it's an innovative area—where we don't have the skills necessary to scale this up at the pace we would like. This is why it's important that we're working with the regional skills partnerships on this agenda and these are very much at the centre of the Welsh skills policy agenda. So, the regional skills partnerships, I can confirm, have considered the low carbon agenda during the development of their annual reports for this year. I know this is a discussion that is ongoing between the skills officials and the regional partnerships and others.
Certainly, we need colleges to be thinking in terms of what they can be doing to ensure that people are coming forward now with the skills for innovative housing. It is a very different kind of skill that's needed. I visited a few of the factory developments where innovative housing has been created, and they were really keen to impress on me how important precision is when you're building innovative housing, because you're building components that will be put together on site, and actually there's no room for error at all in terms of where the bits fit together and so forth. So, it is a new set of skills but it is an area where we're very much working across Government to ensure that we're ready to meet that challenge.
Again, on the issue of brownfieldsites, we've seen lots of projects coming forward filling in sites where building hasn't happened before. We're really keen to work with the local authorities and the housing associations to ensure that they have access to the land that they need in the places that they need it. One of the projects that we do also have is the land for housing fund. This is several million pounds of funding, which is grant funding for housing associations in order to help them purchase the land that they need in order to do the building work that's required in terms of meeting our ambitious targets for housing.

Jenny Rathbone AC: I'm sure Carl Sargeant is smiling benignly on us today because it's just short of a year since he announced stage one of this fantastic innovative housing project. I'd really like to congratulate the Government for pushing ahead with this and more than doubling the number of houses that we're going to be building. I'd like to talk about one of the projects that you mention in your statement, which is the one on City Road in my constituency—£9 million to a housing association called LincCymru to build a fantastic 10-storey building, 50 homes made out of cross-laminated timber. It's on the site of an old furniture warehouse that caught fire a couple of years ago, so it's going to be regenerating a brownfieldsite in an area that is plagued by air pollution. This building, as it's proposed, is going to really help tackle that level of air pollution. There are very few green areasin the area, so it's fantastic that each of these 50 flats are going to have their own green balcony, with vertical gardens, as well as a two-storey garden on the top for residents to share collectively. It's all based on the Bosco Verticale in Milan, which is two tower blocks that contain 900 trees. This is obviously not that ambitious, because the site is not that big. But I'm sure that this is going to be the way forward for the type of housing we're going to need in our cities. I'm really excited by it. In fact, this cross-laminated timber uses a lot less carbon than the Bosco Verticale, and is also going to take a lot less time to construct. Linc Cymru's even talking about building a storey a week, based on the fact that a lot of it will be prefabricated in the factory. So, absolutely fantastic, and thank you very much indeed for making the money available.
In light of the success and the interest in all the innovative housing projects that you've received, I just wondered why we can't go a bit faster on implementing the recommendation in the 'more│better' report, which said that buildings need to be delivered in shorter timescales with lower embodied energy and be carbon storing whilst having an ecologically positive impact. Well, this tower is going to do that, and I wonder when we are going to get around to amending the building regulations to put a stop to the unimaginative, difficult-to-heat and overpriced homes that large private house builders in Cardiff are continuing to put up. So, I do hope that you'll be able to reassure us that we are now going to push ahead with the sort of energy-efficient building regulations that were torn up by the Tories in 2015.

Rebecca Evans AC: Thank you very much for your questions and for your enthusiasm for the project in your constituency, which is obviously going to be a UK first—it's really exciting to have those vertical gardens and so on. You refer to it as a project that is regenerating the area, and what I think is particularly exciting about the innovative housing programme is that it's not innovative housing in a bubble; it's innovative housing as part of our wider Welsh Government agenda. So, the £1.9 million for Newydd Housing Association to build 23 homes as part of the Goods Shed development in Barry will actually include spaces for start-up businesses along the same lines of that which we see in the TramShed, which, if anyone's had the opportunity to visit, is a fantastic regeneration project, and it's the same people behind that that will be undertaking that particular project. Also, one of the projects in north Wales will be making adaptable, moveable pods, built to passive house standards, for single occupancy by homeless people. So, this is addressing some of our urgent need for intermediate housing for people who are currently rough-sleeping. So, that's another exciting project. And, of course, the over-55s apartments that I referred to earlier again are about creating houses that are appropriate for people as they get into older age and as needs change, and so on. We have, again, a dearth of appropriate housing for older people. So, this really is about trying to ensure that we're linking up across Government in terms of achieving more than one thing with this innovative project.
Timber is involved in 22 of the projects. People always tell us that you can't build houses with Welsh timber, but I think this project is certainly proving that not to be the case. We certainly know that, alongside using the timber in the projects we have, in parallel there's work going on at several universities that is showing what can be done in terms of treating Welsh timber in order to strengthen it so it can be used in even greater amounts in Welsh housing as well.
On the issue of building regs, I'm afraid that's the responsibility of my colleague, and I will ask her to write to you with the assurance that you're seeking.

Thank you, Minister.

10. Statement by the Minister for Children, Older People and Social Care: Adoption Week

The next item is a statement by the Minister for Children, Older People and Social Care on Adoption Week. I call on the Minister to make his statement—Huw Irranca-Davies.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Diolch, Llywydd. I'm very pleased to be able to celebrate National Adoption Week with you and to recognise and to pay tribute to all of those caring individuals who are willing to put themselves forward to become adoptive parents and also to those who provide support to them on their journey.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Becoming a parent is a significant commitment and the start of an emotional journey that brings great rewards. But you will know as well as I that being a parent is not always simple and that challenges can and do arise. And, atthese times of challenge, we may need support that enables us to continue to provide a loving, stable home environment—a home that enables our children to thrive. That support is available in many forms—be that friends or family, support groups, or from the range of universal and specialist services.
It continues to be a tremendous inspiration to me personally that individuals continue to commit themselves to care for and support children right across Wales. And I particularly want to pay tribute today to those who have already adopted and to encourage anyone who's considering adoption to come forward.And I also want to recognise the role that professionals and organisations play in supporting adoption right across Wales and, finally, to highlight the action being taken to enable and empower improvement in this area.
More practical support is being delivered for adoptive children, for young people and families as part of a national framework that is driving consistency and improving outcomes.For professionals, a toolkit has been developed to support them to undertake life journey work in adoption. The toolkit has been developed in collaboration with children, young people and adopters, ensuring that the voice of children and young people is heard and, through their lived experiences, is helping to shape and to inform further improvement.
As part of driving this improvement agenda, we have also commissioned the National Adoption Service to, firstly,lead the development of an awareness-raising toolkit for primary health and child and adolescent mental health services and also tosecure research to better evidence why prospective adopters choose not to proceed and progress their applications.
The National Adoption Service for Wales was established in November 2014. It's led by local government, in line with local authorities' legal responsibilities for adoption, and it was created in response to recommendations made by National Assembly for Wales committees on how adoption services should be improved. And improvement is happening.
The latest annual report from NAS confirms that children are being placed with adoptive families quicker than before,that nearly one third of placements were sibling groups, with brothers and sisters together,that nearly all adoption placements are lasting and successful, and that more people want to adopt.So, these are positive outcomes that are sometimes lost. And that's why today and this week are important, because it allows us to offer deserved focus and recognition on the successes of adoption in Wales.
Continuing the improvement journey requires further co-operation and partnership to improve the outcomes for children, and to address, collectively, the adverse childhood experiences that impact on children, irrespective of their family background or structure. That is why adoption is an intrinsic component of my work programme for improving outcomes for children, advised by my ministerial advisory group.
Building the emotional well-being and resilience of children is key to addressing the challenges they have faced, as is providing them with the skills to recognise and to address situations and events that may challenge them in the future. This is where life journey work, which has improved significantly since the establishment of the National Adoption Service, can help provide a solid foundation from which to build and grow.
It's recognised that children who are placed for adoption will often have experienced some degree of trauma or loss in their young lives. Equally, building a securely attached relationship with a traumatised child can be challenging. This requires collaborative approaches between partners to deliver seamless services across health and social care, as the Cabinet Secretary and I have emphasisedrepeatedly in 'A Healthier Wales'.One such example is happening in south-east Wales where the south-east Wales regional collaborative of the National Adoption Service and the Aneurin Bevanhealth board have worked together to secure improved access to clinical psychology input from the child and family psychological health service.
And we know that challenges and trauma are not always immediately apparent.They might not come to the surface until later in a child’s development. That is why it's imperative that adoption agencies continue to provide access to their services and support to families in the event that challenges start to arise. Prevention and early intervention are core principles across social care and health, as are co-operation and partnership. We expect partners to deliver seamless whole-system approaches that mitigate the escalation of need, and of crisis.
So that we better understand how and when these experiences become apparent, and to help to evidence and inform improvement, I am pleased to announce that we have commissioned further work with Cardiff University that builds on the adoption cohort study. This is a unique study of almost 400 children adopted from care that provides a level of detail about early adversity, family relationship quality, child psychological health and so on. This next phase will directly engage with a cohort of families to explore their experiences of informal and formal sources of adoption support in Wales, including child psychological well-being and children's experiences at school, including additional learning needs.
Our approach in Wales remains that we will identify and deliver a range of timely adoption support for families, based on evidence. The legislation provides families with a right to an assessment of their needs for adoption support and it provides local authorities with the powers to meet those needs.
For those who are considering adoption, I can offer no greater encouragement than to direct you to the experiences and the family stories on the National Adoption Service website and the poignant words of those who know best. Colin and Carol say:
'There are children out there that need mums and dads and we were a couple who wanted to be a mum and dad.'
Eileen says:
'Taking on three children at the same time is daunting, but it brought me incredible joy.'
And Tony and Jacquiesay:
'We have found it hard, but our two have given us the family we have always wanted. AND we’d do it again.'
And, finally, the words of those who have been adopted. Firstly, the force that is Jamie Baulch. He says:
'I never really wanted to talk about adoption before because the time wasn’t right. Now I’m happy to tell everyone how amazing my life has been.I’m older and wiser and look back on my life and realise how magical and fantastic it has been.'
And, secondly, but equally importantly, from Nick, who says very simply, but very effectively:
'Being adopted is insignificant to me. But my parents mean everything.'
So, tomorrow, I am looking forward to meeting two new prospective adopters to hear about their personal journey toward creating a new family.
Today and this week is about recognising the success of adoption in Wales and I urge all Members to join me in celebrating and promoting adoption. Diolch, Llywydd.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: Isn't it lovely to be able to follow you when you've expressed your gratitude and acknowledgement of the work that our services do to support both the adoptive parents and adoption and our children? BecauseI've had quite a lot of experience with some families—a family of three siblings, and, along the way, some of the challenges that presented. It was wonderful, really, when we were able to address those and things were dealt with early, and that's where early intervention and prevention is key. So, I would like to join you on behalf of the Welsh Conservative group in expressing our sincere gratitude to those working in adoption services and to those who adopt children and young people in Wales, knowing that they do so, as you rightly pointed out, to complete their own families. Everybody does such fantastic work to provide a better future for hundreds of children every year, and I'm sure that we all join in and recognisethis across the Chamber.
On page 2, I note, about adoptive parents, how we do need to actually help now making it quicker and easier for sibling groups, because they do present more challenges than a single child. According to the National Adoption Service's annual report, 300 children were placed in adoptive homes across Wales in 2016-17 and I welcome the improvements made in recent years to our adoption services. The National Adoption Service's annual report has, however, identified some concerning statistics, because, as of June 2018, we do have more than 300 childrenstill waiting to be adopted, and nearly one in five of these have been waiting for more than a year, and when we consider that a year in the life of a child is considerable—.
Any wait for both the potential adoptive parents and, indeed, the children places extra pressures and unnecessary stress. So, I'm pretty keen that whatever we can do, even though it is fantastic, we look to actually make our systems even better. There is an urgent need to develop and deliver a more targeted approach to finding suitable families for priority children across Wales, and then to streamline that process to encourage more families to come forward and want to adopt.
In your statement, provided to an ITV Wales article published yesterday, you state that you
'want to encourage anyone who has thought about adopting to contact their local adoption agency'.
I would just ask you and your department whether there is some work that you could perhapsdo that actually highlights the need, highlights this issue, because I do know people who find, sometimes, it quite difficult to navigate the system. So, anything that you, as a department, can do to make that link-up and that joining-up, and make those families complete, all the better.
So, really, I would just endorse a lot of what you've said here today, Minister, but just if you could answer that question as to what you think you can do to actively reduce the numbers of children waiting so long to be adopted, and how you think you can then provide more support for families—. But it's about getting more profile for this so that we don't have a situation in Wales where we have children waiting to be adopted and we have adoptive parents, desperate to adopt those children. Thank you.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Thank you, Janet, and thanks for your encouragement as well of families who might want to come forward. We wantmore families to come forward, and families come in all shapes and sizes, as well. But we want more families to come forward, because we've had around 300 children, over the last year, go throughinto the adoption process; we know that we currentlyhave around 350 who are going through the process and we hope they'll all be successful, but we do need more potential families to come forward. And we can play a role in that, certainly, as elected individuals, because we have quite a reach ourselves in the way that we promote what's going on in this week, particularly, with us standing here today. But we can do more as well in working with local authorities. I would want to encourage all local authorities, as well as agencies out there, to carry on and to amplify the work that they do to encourage potential adoptive families to come forward as well.
It can't be just this one week; it needs be a constant thing. And that's where the National Adoption Service, I think, is increasingly playing a very strong role—it's promoting the work of adoption and the opportunities here. You rightly flag up, though: there is a great deal of good news and progress that is being made and I think putting the national framework in place is helping to drive that. The National Adoption Service itselfis helping to drive it.
But, also, performance management is very important. We've put in place now what, I think, has been recognised as a more robust performance management framework for adoption services. It's been an importantinnovation becausewhen you can measure it and when you can measure regional variation as well, it does tend to drive improvement forward because it allows that meaningful comparison between different areas of Wales—and there are differences, even though the trajectory is upwards, there are still areas lagging behind. It enables us then, as Ministers, as the National Adoption Service, as local partnerships, to put real challenge into the system and identify best practice and get it rolled out everywhere.
We thinkthat that more robust performancemanagement is a significantstep forward to equalising access to services and also raising quality overall. There is some way to go. We've had that positive impact around the drop in the length of time between the child becoming looked after to being placed for adoption—that has gone down. There are fewer children waiting more than six months for a match. But, actually, we think we can do more, and some of the measures we're taking now in reviewing and overhauling parts of the system will match our ambition that no child should be waitingeven a month to get onto the register. They should be on the register and then with the ability—the more flexible ability—of potential adoptive families to match up with those children and young people as well. So, all the time, we're trying to find those new ways that we can improve performance and get the performanceconsistent across Wales.

Dai Lloyd AC: Can I welcome the statement from the Minister as regards celebrating National Adoption Week? And, obviously, I think we're all, on these benches, very happy to join in widespread celebration of adoption week. I'm very happy to second the tribute to all prospective adoptive parents and those who have been adopting children and young people over the years. It really is tremendous. I stand in awe, actually. I stand in awe, because there is a huge agenda here, obviously. I used to wonder, in my baby clinics in Fforestfach Medical Centre years ago—. I used to see little babies who were exactly the same as my own babies at the time, but they would have very different experiences to my children, and you could see the brutalising effect of a wide variety of adverse childhood experiences scarring young children, and it wasn't their fault. And it was absolutely terrible to behold. The same sort of situation, unfortunately, carries on happening these days, and sometimes that phrase, 'adverse childhood experiences', seems to hide the cruelty and the abuse that is still happening, and scars run deep and long. And obviously, prolonged stays in the care system as well can be sometimes equally brutalising. And so, adoption really is extremely important, and I salute, obviously, also, the work of the National Adoption Service as well.
Now, plainly, my question involves—. Plainly, adoption, therefore, is preferable, obviously, to remaining in the care system for a long period of time. So, can I ask the Minister how confident is he that the current focus on trying to ensure children can return to birth parents, while understandable, that sort of focus on trying to ensure that children can return to their birth parents is only being undertaken when most people involved in that situation would accept that this is a realistic possibility? Because, it's an important issue, and situations are extremely difficult. Decisions cannot be rushed, but obviously they have to be the right decisions as well. Thank you.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Dai, thank you very much, and on that very important point, I think this is why, curiously, the work in the adoption sector doesn't stand totally isolated from the wider issue of looked-after children and improving outcomes for all children. I think, in all of that wide piste of work, of paramount importance and statutorily underpinned, as well, by our belief in the rights of the child, is that the child comes first. He and I will sometimes, as all Assembly Members do, have some challenging conversations with birth parents who will say, 'Well, the best interests of the child are for them to be with me,' and yet the multi-agency professional advice is: 'Whilst we sympathise with the parents, actually the best place is somewhere else.' Sometimes, however, it is the other way, and with the right therapeutic support, with the right interventions wrapping around the family, solutions can be found where, safely, they can be retained in that family setting, with often quite intensive additional support, but it has to be in the best interests of the child. And that, curiously, is where the work beyond adoption but actually within the ministerial advisory group and the work streams that they have set in front of them, including one, which is—. In fact, their first work stream, probably, at the moment issafely reducing the numbers of children who come into looked-after care, but it's also the quality for those children who are then within care.
But adoption provides, we know, with the right support in place, a very, very good routeinto family life—with the right support in place, a very good return to family life, and something that can have a lasting and profound influence on that child and young person's development. In celebrating this week, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, it's heartening to see the success we are having, not only in increasing the numbers coming through, but also that those adoptions are largely successful—despite tribulations, very often, with children and young people with traumatic incidents in earlier life, who still need therapeutic interventions to help, and the family will need support as well. But it works, and people work through this.
Like him—he usedthe words that he stands 'in awe' of those people who go on this journey. Actually, many of them who go on this journey, they get so much out of it as well, but I equally stand in awe because of the challenge of doing this. No child being brought up is easy, but actually saying, 'We're going to take a child that we know is coming to us with complex issues that we're going to have to work through for years and years', and to do it, well, it is quite breathtaking. But, we want lots more people to come forward and do it as well.

Michelle Brown AC: Thank you for your statement, Minister. I would like to join the Minister in paying tribute to those who put themselves forward to adopt a child in need of a loving and stable home, and I welcome this statement. Although the Minister hasn't quantified the improvements he set out in his statement, I welcome the news that children are being placed with adopting families quicker, that a sizeable proportion of sibling groups are being placed together, and that more people want to adopt. It's equally good news that the majority of adoptions are lasting and successful. As the Minister says, adoption week offers an opportunity to focus on adoption and recognise Wales's successes.
However, it's also a chance for the Minister and his department to reflect on whether there are barriers to peopleapplying to adopt or continuing with the adoption process. It's also an appropriate time for the Minister to consider whether the guidance he and his department provide toadoption agencies and services is the best it can be, to ensure that no child is waiting for adoptive parents longer than is absolutely necessary. Does the Minister therefore intend to review such guidance and will he report back to this place on the results of his review?
I'm a firm believer that it's the quality of parenting an adopter can offer a child that should be the deciding factor when placing a child with adoptive parents, ahead of all other considerations. The Barnardo's website suggests that there's an additional difficulty in finding adoptive homes for children of black and minority ethnicity, sibling groups, and children who have challenging behaviour.
I wonder if the Ministeris aware of the initiative named Adopting Together, which is supported by the National Adoption Service and that was highlighted in an article on the BBC website earlier this week? I presume he is. It seems to be a good approach to placing children in need of adoption. But, whilst it states it's targeted at finding loving homes for children aged four and over, sibling groups, children with additional needs, and children with medical needs or medical uncertainty—in other words, those children who have been identified as waiting the longest for a family—it makes no mention of children from an ethnic minority.
Why, I ask myself, when Barnardo's have identified BME children as a group needing special consideration, does Adopting Together miss them out, unless they also fall into one of the other categories? That, of course, is a question more properly put to Adopting Together, but are you concerned about the apparent difference of approach and whether such a difference could potentially affect the number of parents putting themselves forward to adopt BMEchildren?
It's difficult to find out if the agencies and local authorities that operate adoption services in Wales are fully open to interracial adoption. Do you agree with me that the overriding concern when finding a permanent family home for looked-after children should be the ability of the adopting parent or parents to provide a loving and stable home? And, just as we are rightly completely open to adoptions by gay couples, we should also be open to adopting children into families of a different ethnicity to themselves.
Another point that prospective adopters may find off-puttingis that one agency says potential adopters should either be home owners or have an assured tenancy. I'm concerned that this excludes a huge amount of potential adopters. Assured tenancies are pretty hard to come by in Wales and renting is on the increase, what with prices and deposit requirements being the way they are. We're going to have a huge problem finding loving and stable homes for children if we discount generation rent from the pool of potential adopters.
It seems a very cruel irony that an agency would be content to leave a child in a situation where they may have to regularly and unpredictably move from foster home to foster home or care home to care home simply because an agency doesn't want to place them with a family that may have to move. Moving to a different house is a physical act, it's not the same as moving to a different family.
So, are you happy that either a mortgage or an assured tenancy should be a prerequisite for adoption? If you are, rather than stop shorthold renters becoming adoptive parents, shouldn't you bring forward policies to increase the duration of shorthold tenancies? How is the Minister ensuring that the National Adoption Service and Adopting Together are co-ordinating their work to the benefit of children and young people?
It's encouraging that health boardsare also looking at working together to provide improved access to clinical psychology input. And I would ask the Minister how he will learn lessons from this work, and roll those lessons out throughout Wales. Finally, I would like to join the Minister in celebrating adoption. And I very much hope that, the next time the Minister comes to this place to report on adoption in Wales, he will be able to report that the measures he's taking now will have resulted in very positive results. Thank you.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Thank you very much, Michelle. If I can start with the first point that you raised there, after your welcome for this celebration this week and promotion of adoption, you laid down the challenge about what the results we were having are. I touched on some of them in my opening remarks, but I'm happy to clarify: more than 300 children were placed last year in a new adoptive home; approximately 300 children had their adoption orders granted; and there are a further 350 children with the legal authority now to be placed, who are waiting to be matched or placed with a new family at the end of the year. What else? We've got more than 500 children with adoption support services in place. The national service has facilitated nearly 3,500 active letter-box contact arrangements. They've provided a service to more than 320 birth parents, and so on. All of those show an improvement in performance, from a national perspective, although, as I touched on previously, one of the issues that we have to do is get consistency right across Wales, in all the regions.
I think you touched as well on the aspect of speeding up the process—was that your point?

Michelle Brown AC: Not really.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Just to raise to Assembly Members' understanding, we have a couple of pieces of consultation currently live in the field of adoption legislation, and they're to do with actually speeding up the process. There's the first, which covers the new regulations required, which flow on from the risk regulations. And the second covers the proposed introduction of the two-stage system for assessing and approving adopters, which covers some of the points that you were raising there, but it's also focusing on reducing the timescale within which children and approved prospective adopters have their details added to the register for Wales to a maximum of one month, which would be a huge leap forward.
Many of the points that you raised in terms of the criteria for adoptive families I haven't actually had raised with me as major issues. It's been more to do with actually matching up the right family with the right child or young person; it hasn't been to do with mortgages, and so on. But I'll go away and look at that, and I'll write to the Member on it. She asked what confidence we have in driving this forward. We do have that confidence—one, because of the performance improvement that we can see already, but also because we have the national framework in place, because we have now a strategic national outlook with the national service, and because we have assessment going on of what we are doing as well. But I'll happily write to you on the issue that you raised to do with security of tenure. I would come back to the point that I said to Dai as well: everything we do within this sphere is always with the best interests of the child paramount, first and foremost, as well as matching with adoptive families. But I'll write to you on that issue, because it hasn't been raised with me before, and it hasn't come up as a problem, so I'll go away and find out if it is. If you have any particular examples of where that's been a problem, I'd be happy if you shared them with me too.

Finally, Rhianon Passmore.

Rhianon Passmore AC: Diolch, Llywydd. Firstly, I wish to very much welcome the Minister for children's statement celebrating Adoption Week, and the active cutting-edge work now taking place across Wales, both in homes and across our agencies. The Minister, along with the Cabinet Secretary, has long championed a collaborative approach between our partner agencies, as emphasised in 'A Healthier Wales'. So, will the Minister recognise formally in this Chamber the groundbreaking and innovative practice in this field now taking place, particularly across south-east Wales? The south-east Wales regional collaboration, consisting of the National Adoption Service and the Aneurin Bevan Local Health Board, have worked strategically together to secure improved access to needed clinical psychology inputs. So, will he then recognise such examples of excellence within the new national framework, and ensure that such cutting-edge work is celebrated,enhanced and replicated across Wales, not just for current adopted children, but for future adoptees and their much-needed forever families?

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Rhianon, yes, thank you very much. And, again, thankyou for your support for this area and for championing adoption as well. And certainly the south-east is driving forward. There are other examples, I have to say, in other parts of Wales as well, but what we've done in the south-east area, particularly with access to clinical psychology, has been groundbreaking and one of the things that the NAS will be looking to do is to see how we can then replicate this more widely across Wales. Because that's the way, in that sort of partnership, collaborative, strategic approach, but driving through best practice and making it common, that we'll see real improvements. Because very often for adoptive families they need to know—and the studies will show us, theCardiff University study will show us—they need the right supportat that timely moment, when they need it, to avoid things worsening or getting to a crisis point. So, the sort of work going on in south-east Wales is something that we should shout about and then try and make sure that it's happening across the piste as well. We have many of these examples of good practice now and I think a lot of it is being driven through the nationalframework and through the national service as well. So, yes, and when she leaves here today I'm sure she will—I hope very much that she will—go and make sure that within her local media and so on she is again driving that need for more families to come forward.

Thank you, Minister, and that brings today's proceedings to a close.

The meeting ended at 18:51.

QNR

Questions to the First Minister

Mark Reckless: Will the First Minister provide an update regarding the dualling of the Heads of the Valleys road?

Mark Drakeford: To date, three of the six sections have been completed, with the final three due for completion by 2023. The completed programme will represent a capital investment equivalent to over £900 million, and will deliver a continuous dual carriageway from the M4 along the A465 to the midlands and beyond.

Russell George: Will the First Minister outline how the proposals in the Brexit and Our Land consultation will benefit Welsh farmers?

Mark Drakeford: 'Brexit and our land' presents proposals to keep farmers on the land. The proposed economic resilience scheme would provide investment for farmers to improve and adapt their business to face the challenges of Brexit. In addition, the proposed public goods scheme would create a new income stream for farmers.

Mohammad Asghar: What action is the Welsh Government taking to support the retail industry?

Mark Drakeford: Retail is one of four foundation sectors identified in our economic action plan. We are working across Government to develop a foundation sector enabling plan to guide our future activity.

Helen Mary Jones: Will the First Minister make a statement on progress in the Mid and West Wales region on 21st Century Schools?

Mark Drakeford: Band A of the twenty-first century schools and education programme will see investment of just over £328 million in schools in mid and west Wales. A funding envelope for mid and west Wales of £365 million for band B, beginning in 2019, has been approved in principle.

David Melding: Will the First Minister make a statement on the support that is available for housing adaptations for older people?

Mark Drakeford: Housing adaptations play an essential role helping older and disabled people to live safely and independently. We are working to make the delivery of housing adaptations more consistent and customer-focused and recently launched a consultation on service standards as part of our work in this area.

David Rees: Will the First Minister provide an update on the progress being made on the boundary changes between Abertawe Bro Morgannwg University Health Board and Cwm Taf University Health Board?

Mark Drakeford: The local health boards continue to focus on ensuring preparedness for the boundary change to take effect from 1 April 2019, through a joint transition board and director. The legislation giving effect to the change will be brought forward in due course.

Suzy Davies: Will the First Minister make a statement on emergency services in South Wales West?

Mark Drakeford: There is an ongoing commitment to provide quality, consistent and joined-up emergency services to citizens, including those in South Wales West.